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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#661

Post by mcv »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #582
yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

I can relate. I've been pro nuclear my entire adult life, but in more recent years have added a lot more hesitations and conditions to that. Fukushima put me onto a similar thread of thinking. If there were any society and government you'd expect to have sober thinking and solid engineering around nuclear, it'd be Japan, let the way TEPCO and the Abe administration behaved in the opening stages of the emergency was q…

Just when I was ready to abandon my anti-nuclear stance and ready to accept nuclear power as transitional technology before we can transition to fully sustainable energy.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#662

Post by keymone »

locallost wrote: post #658

Remember this situation the next time you hear somebody say that nuclear plants could be built cheaper if not for too much safety regulation.

This wouldn’t have happened if the world stopped buying oil and gas from Russia and used more energy from nuclear power plants.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#663

Post by Markoff »

nice thread (this account is good to follow) disproving Ukrainiang propaganda, Western media saying Russians attacked nuclear power plant and put it on fire, while Russians entered without any shooting and then were shot at by Ukrainians causing fire in administrative building, so much for relying on Western media making money on causing panic and spreading misinformation

https://twitter.com/ASBMilitary/status/1499531572055318529

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#664

Post by keymone »

pasquinelli wrote: post #632
sidibe wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

Quoted post unavailable.

Russian ship, go fuck yourself.

Russian bot, convert yourself into a sunflower.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#665

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ratg13 wrote: post #317
boringg wrote: post #274

So, aside from the obvious nature of messing around with Nuclear generating station being an idiotic move. From a tactical move for Russia - clearly they want the generating station offline to cause further chaos in Ukraine and that it supplies 1/6 of the power I believe(?). Was the generating station fighting to say online / not surrender or did Russia just show up guns blazing? It's clearly a tactically important s…

The plant has been offline for some time due to renovation.

I read it was just the one reactor (the one whose building was damaged in the attack).

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#666

Post by mellavora »

isomel wrote: post #532
revscat wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This touches on why I think humanity will not survive for much longer. Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, and yet it continues to be more or less ignored. Vast swathes of the population believe that their egos can determine reality, no matter the actual physical reality they so hubristically ignore. > we’re not capable of I don’t think so, either. This sentiment tends to be met by the…

> Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, Global warming is a threat that will have tons of negative impact. But is it really "civilization-ending"?

Potentially, yes.

There are the typical threats (which assume society remains more or less stable) such as ecosystem collapse leading to food shortages etc.

Then the non-typical threats. It is hard to predict what an unstable society will do, and some of those choices could be civilization ending.

We've built an extremely fragile massively interdependent system. It is conceivable that the US power grid could go down, and due to supply chain issues could not be restored in Is that enough to end civilization? How would we distribute food, assuming we have it?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#667

Post by pqwEfkvjs »

pasquinelli wrote: post #632
sidibe wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

Quoted post unavailable.

How does that justify Russian actions right now?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#668

Post by dragonwriter »

cmurf wrote: post #427
dragonwriter wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not Russia is a Protocol I party doesn't particularly matter here as the war crime at issue is viewed now as a matter of customary international law and is explicitly within the jurisdiction of the ICC; Rome Statute Article 8, 2.(b)(iv)

OK, but Russia withdrew from the ICC. And Ukraine has signed but not ratified. And as Russia can veto a U.N. Security Council resolution referring a crime to the ICC, I'm not sure how this happens? And it seems Russia is not a party to the Rome Statutes either.

> OK, but Russia withdrew from the ICC.

Doesn't matter for ICC jurisdiction over war crimes committed in Ukraine, because Ukraine, while not a state party, has acceded to voluntary ICC jurisdiction for war crimes and crimes against humanity on its territory from 21 November 2013 forward. (If you are relying on Wikipedia, it seems to systematically omit mention of voluntary jurisdiction.)

> And as Russia can veto a U.N. Security Council resolution referring a crime to the ICC

A UNSC resolution is not required; for cases where the ICC would have jurisdiction, it can begin investigations on the initiative of the prosecutor with permission of the ICC judiciary, or on referral of a state party (which need not be directly involved.) After the ICC prosecutor announced the intention to seek permission for an investigation, based on both a completed preliminary examination which found sufficient indication of ICC-covered war crimes and crimes against humanity before the recent escalation, as well as additional concerns arising from the recent escalation on his own initiative, but noted that a state-party referral would streamline the process, 39 state parties to the Rome Statute submitted referrals relating to the situation in Ukraine to the ICC.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#669

Post by trashtester »

supergirl wrote: post #600
sidibe wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

anything is possible in war. if Ukraine was on the brink of losing everything and they had nuclear weapons, would they not use them against Russia? that's the whole point. if your state is about to cease to exist, you are desperate. for now, the war has not reached this point. if Ukraine where to try to use nuclear material now they would lose allies. but you don't know what the war will look like in 2 weeks. so I do…

If the Ukranians are willing to sacrifice everything for the independence, chances are, they will get their independence, nukes or not. At least as long as they keep getting support from the west. If Russia keeps getting thousands or tens of thousands of body bags back each year, for 10, 20 or 30 years, eventually, they will tire of holding on to the Ukraine.

The cost may be millions of Ukrainian lives, so this all comes down to how much the Ukranian people is willing to endure for their eventual independence.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#670

Post by konschubert »

mcv wrote: post #661
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate. I've been pro nuclear my entire adult life, but in more recent years have added a lot more hesitations and conditions to that. Fukushima put me onto a similar thread of thinking. If there were any society and government you'd expect to have sober thinking and solid engineering around nuclear, it'd be Japan, let the way TEPCO and the Abe administration behaved in the opening stages of the emergency was q…

Just when I was ready to abandon my anti-nuclear stance and ready to accept nuclear power as transitional technology before we can transition to fully sustainable energy.

Same here.
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