New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

Post by icelancer » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 8:56 AM UTC

tbrownaw wrote: post #166

freedomben wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for this situation, but before I moved to tech I worked in a heavily union industry, and all the union shops had in their bargaining contract that the employer could not hire anyone who wasn't in the union. For people in the union it was great. For people not in the union, it sucked. And before somebody says, "well just join the union" (do you really think I'm that stupid not to have thought about that?…

That sounds very inefficient. How did that whole industry not get their lunch eaten by other states / countries?

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 9:02 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #151

morgante wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I always have the option to quit. Which I had in the first place. It's just as possible (in fact, probable) that the union negotiates a worse contract than what I could have gotten myself and I'd be forced to quit a job I liked. That's a strictly worse outcome. > At least in the union situation you’ve had an advocate in negotiating the contract. They're not an advocate for me. They're an advocate for the union .…

Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback of all time, with a professional agency to negotiate on his behalf, was in a union. Tom Cruise is in a union. Steven Spielberg is in a union. There may be philosophical reasons to oppose a union, but contracting isn’t generally an issue. If you have more negotiating power than the union, you can just negotiate on top of the union contract, like sports and entertainment stars do.

Post by scarface74 » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 9:05 AM UTC

CSMastermind wrote: post #137

tootie wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why? Engineers are already compensated way, way above average and have loads of mobility opportunities. I actually work in a news org where most of the non-tech people are in one union or another but my team isn't. We have actually had a few union staff who wanted to do coding work and the union essentially blocked them.

> Honest question: why? Because the existing union of news workers demanded that software engineers be included in their membership as part of some negotiation at some point. Basically, it was a way for the union to grow its membership (and dues). It was impossible to opt out of the union and you had to pay dues, I forget how much but I think it was like 2% of your salary or something to the union. Given the option I…

Post by lmm » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #168

lmm wrote: post #157

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Oh absolutely. But the remedy for that is to be actively involved and hold them to account, not dismiss the whole thing as a scam.

You want me to be actively involved in all insurance contracts that are offered to me, and try to lobby them to be better? Seems like just saying No to them would be the saner option. (Similar also for unions you don't want to participate in. Or political parties, or companies etc. Joining and getting involved is fine, if that's what you want. But avoiding is just as valid a response.)

Post by rmbyrro » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #136

0xy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's like buying a lottery ticket every day for decades expecting to win millions. They don't show value and there's no indication they ever will, and it costs a significant amount of money. Often, the unions themselves are corrupt.

> So it's like buying a lottery ticket every day for decades expecting to win millions. They don't show value and there's no indication they ever will, and it costs a significant amount of money. Money has diminishing returns. Paying to gain a small chance of winning big is generally foolish; paying to eliminate a small chance of losing big is often wise. > Often, the unions themselves are corrupt. This seems to be a…