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New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

nytimes.com

31–40 of 335 posts

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#31
post #12

Since people talk about this being the start of a wave of tech unionization, how will success or failure be determined for this union? It would be cool if we could see some OKRs for the union and check in a year if this actually did anything.

I could see this being the start of a small wave. And that wave is exclusive to regions of the country and companies where tech workers lean extremely heavily left. I don't see this gaining widespread industry adoption though. The market is simply too hot.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#32
post #6
post #2

I need the long German word for “however this plays out, it will be used as a spurious example either for or against some extreme position”. If it works out, great - that hardly means unions are a foolproof idea - and if it fails it’s hardly a condemnation of unions themselves. And yet, it will be interesting to see how this plays out!

Random Sample as Full Confirmation of the Extreme I've hacked into (help from G) StichprobeVollständigeBestätigungExtrems

Sadly that word doesn't work at all as is, and the mid-word capitalizations do not work either. Good effort tho :)

The random sample (Stichprobe) has to go last, as it is the subject. Extreme is probably the "extreme case" not "extreme value" in here, so Extremfall, but we need plural to consider all extremes at the same time - which has the added "aesthetic" bonus of adding another German umlaut in Fälle. Full Confirmation is just Bestätigung I'd say. So maybe

Extremfälle-Bestätigungs-Stichprobe = Extremfällebestätigungsstichprobe

(to make it plural, just add an n)

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#33
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah places that need unions usually have bad management. The #1 reason to form a Union is that you work for shitty unreasonable managers

I've never loved a job so much that I'd try to organize versus finding a better home for my trade. It's a concept that's completely foreign to me. In tech, we've never been in a market this vast and this thirsty for talent. Making a move has never been more possible or more lucrative. It just doesn't add up for me personally.

You’re living in a happy time. Ask a former high flying IBM engineer from what Binghamton or Poughkeepsie, NY was like circa 1992 when IBM detonated the mainframe business. Or anyone from DEC or HP.

If you don’t think that will happen to the current cohort of tech giants, you’re engaging in magical thinking.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#34
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah places that need unions usually have bad management. The #1 reason to form a Union is that you work for shitty unreasonable managers

I've never loved a job so much that I'd try to organize versus finding a better home for my trade. It's a concept that's completely foreign to me. In tech, we've never been in a market this vast and this thirsty for talent. Making a move has never been more possible or more lucrative. It just doesn't add up for me personally.

There are plenty of opportunities in tech but far fewer in news. If you’re someone that’s passionate about doing tech in news it makes more sense.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the time to unionize! The employer has limited leverage to bust any union efforts. When the employment market is weak and you are scrounging for a job it's a lot easier to threaten/scare everyone into submission.

This also describes an environment where the union doesn't seem to be offering any significant benefits to developers. If unionizing doesn't improve your working conditions, what's the point of the union?

I think the idea is that you form the union when you have leverage and don't need it so that if you ever lose leverage as an individual in the future (e.g. if the developer labor market becomes oversaturated or demand for developers tanks), you will still have some leverage as a member of the collective.

Seems kind of like insurance - you pay for it when you don't need it so that you have it when you do.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#36
post #14

For a publication that always pushes for unions it seems a bit strange they are late adopters. Dont like your own food?

The company as a whole is not a late adopter. I forget but I know all the journalists are in a union already and there’s a long history of unions on printing presses.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the time to unionize! The employer has limited leverage to bust any union efforts. When the employment market is weak and you are scrounging for a job it's a lot easier to threaten/scare everyone into submission.

This also describes an environment where the union doesn't seem to be offering any significant benefits to developers. If unionizing doesn't improve your working conditions, what's the point of the union?

Forming the union when you have leverage helps later when you don't.

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#39

So will NYT be a union shop / the union will have a monopoly, have multiple unions, or have a mix of union and non-union work?

In a large and varied company like the New York Times you’re going to have multiple Unions representing different workers. The printers won’t usually be in the same union as the tech workers. You’ll always have a mix of union and non-union work since managers can’t be in the union and certain types of work may not be covered by one of the current unions.

Thanks for the response. I’m surprised that managers generally aren’t allowed in unions. But then I guess that’s probably a case by case thing with different criteria for different unions. Still, there are 20+ million “managers” according to the AFLCIO, excluding professionals who manage staff, e.g. some engineers, doctors, etc. Probably 10–20% of all workers.

https://www.dpeaflcio.org/factsheets/the-professional-and-te...

Re: New York Times tech workers vote to certify union

#40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never loved a job so much that I'd try to organize versus finding a better home for my trade. It's a concept that's completely foreign to me. In tech, we've never been in a market this vast and this thirsty for talent. Making a move has never been more possible or more lucrative. It just doesn't add up for me personally.

You’re living in a happy time. Ask a former high flying IBM engineer from what Binghamton or Poughkeepsie, NY was like circa 1992 when IBM detonated the mainframe business. Or anyone from DEC or HP. If you don’t think that will happen to the current cohort of tech giants, you’re engaging in magical thinking.

I get your point, but that was 30 years ago. When I played basketball, we used to say "two buckets is luck, three is a streak" - we've been in favorable markets, with a few temporary dips, for 20 years. I'd call that a streak, more so than magical thinking.
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