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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#481

Post by methyl »

galangalalgol wrote: post #346
Zandikar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1499546302786510853 more recent firing, from about 15minutes ago as well.

someone elsewhere in this thread wrote that bombing a nuclear plant was considered a war crime, if this is on video, will it likely be used in the current UN investigation of Russian war crimes?

They already commited a lot other of war crimes in past 9 days, it doesn’t really matter for Putin. It seems he has nothing to loose and until his people will stand against him, he will just continue “according to the plan”.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#482

Post by malloryerik »

tablespoon wrote: post #458
TillE wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has its propaganda and lies, but they're generally couched in half-truths. It's truly remarkable how the Russian flavor of misinformation sounds just like a pathological liar making up wild bullshit that nobody could possibly take seriously. That's been a tradition for decades, as far as I know.

> It's truly remarkable how the Russian flavor of misinformation sounds just like a pathological liar making up wild bullshit that nobody could possibly take seriously. IIRC, the correct term is disinformation, and I believe the idea (at least sometimes) is more akin to "jamming" than any kind of persuasion (e.g. encourage passivity because it's too much effort to sort out the truth from the lies).

The Russian "Firehose of Falsehood" Propaganda Model -- Why It Might Work and Options to Counter It https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#483

Post by ericd »

ck2 wrote: post #428
boringg wrote: post #274

So, aside from the obvious nature of messing around with Nuclear generating station being an idiotic move. From a tactical move for Russia - clearly they want the generating station offline to cause further chaos in Ukraine and that it supplies 1/6 of the power I believe(?). Was the generating station fighting to say online / not surrender or did Russia just show up guns blazing? It's clearly a tactically important s…

Purposely causing nuclear disasters is one way to ensure a country can never join NATO or the EU Putin doesn't have to occupy the country to "win", all he has to do is set them back to the dark ages and make everyone (who can) flee. He can't be allowed to get away with this. Ukraine needs a "no fly zone" ASAP

You realize that instituting a no fly zone means the US shooting down Russian aircraft, right? Which means a hot war between US/NATO and Russia. That is something that the US should absolutely not engage in, because the stakes at that point are the survival of the species, rather than just Ukraine.

We need to not normalize the idea of a no fly zone, no matter how gut wrenching watching this war gets.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#484

Post by 88840-8855 »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

It's normal to have those thoughts now, they are driven by fear. The situation is developing fast and most people are just sitting here and watching news and blame and get feelings and emotions. Just a waste of time.

A few peoples actually go to the borders or the stations to help the refugees arriving. Do that. At least you leave an impact.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#485

Post by staticassertion »

HWR_14 wrote: post #473
Comevius wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the reactors are behind the camera streaming the administrative building. Hopefully nothing goes wrong during the takeover. The reactor containment itself is robust, but the potential for human error in a war that keeps escalating should not be discounted.

Internet speculation is that the power plant will be shut down once taken over. Which at least minimizes the ongoing risk of human error. Heck, shutting down is probably a far simpler process than continuing to run - nuclear power plants are designed to be shut down if necessary.

I mean, they're also designed to run, and they do that most of the time.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#486

Post by robinei »

kypro wrote: post #201
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risks of nuclear war from a NATO militarily intervention are far too high to even consider it. I’m sorry to say, but there is really nothing that could happen in Ukraine that would be bad enough for us to accept the risk of nuclear annihilation.

If NATO got involved my guess is that the chance of an all out nuclear war would increase to near 100% because Russia can not win a conventional war with NATO which means nukes would need to be deployed to level the playing field. Once one Nuke is fired it's likely they'll all be because the only real defence against a nation using nuclear weapons against you is to try to wipe them out before they wipe you out. In th…

Given the accepted MAD doctrine, which kept the "peace" throughout the cold war, you would think nuclear escalation would be unthinkable as a means to stave off a conventional defeat on foreign soil.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#487

Post by anonymouswacker »

eru wrote: post #432
TillE wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has its propaganda and lies, but they're generally couched in half-truths. It's truly remarkable how the Russian flavor of misinformation sounds just like a pathological liar making up wild bullshit that nobody could possibly take seriously. That's been a tradition for decades, as far as I know.

Keep in mind that you are likely seeing the Russian propaganda through a filter of western propaganda and interpretation.

[flagged]

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#488

Post by MisterMower »

monocasa wrote: post #452
TulliusCicero wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? What if Putin threatens nuclear annihilation anyway?

It's the clear line in the sand. Putin's not going to cross that line, he doesn't gain anything from it.

Assuming NATO would be willing to use nuclear weapons if he did attack a NATO country.

I have far more confidence that Putin would use them than the US would. That asymmetry works to his advantage.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#489

Post by fallingknife »

formerlurker wrote: post #431
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #312

https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2022/03/4/7328008/ (link in Russian, that's a big newspaper in Ukraine) the units of chechen warlord Kadyrov are fighting inside the building of the power station, and are said to be laying mines, as a means of exerting pressure. What could go wrong... This kadyrov is totally mad, they introduced Sharia law in their chechen republic, and putin doesn't want to interfer with this madn…

Thank you for pointing out that the plant is 6 times bigger. I watched the HBO series Chernobyl and it opened my eyes to the dangers of a nuclear meltdown. I hope the new containment tech is enough to avoid a disaster.

That show was basically fiction. https://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/chernobyl/

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#490

Post by ericd »

mulmen wrote: post #422
adventured wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect if the invasion is protracted, Putin will at a minimum detonate a demonstration nuke. The downside consequences for Russia are modest at this point, and it'll be very terrifying to the people of Ukraine (and the world generally).

There is no “demonstration nuke”. If Putin sets off a nuke it’s doomsday. The time between Russia being the second country to use nuclear weapons and our current concept of countries becoming totally irrelevant would be measured in minutes. Having said this he might still do it.

The rest of the world isn’t going to say “whelp, I guess it’s time to kick off the extinction of our species” and do a full set of city strikes over a tactical nuke being used. That would be absurd.
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