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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#341

Post by Johnny555 »

Eduard wrote: post #121
Gustomaximus wrote: post #12

Live stream from plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8 Automated Radiation Monitoring system: https://www.npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms

Yeah, and here's the current meteorological data: Air temperature 0 ℃ Wind N Wind speed 0 m/s Relative humidity 0 % Atmospheric pressure 0 mm Hg ... I hope that low pressure isn't from a vacuum bomb. with the HN meme of AWS status pages reporting everything fine while AWS is down, here we have good evidence we cannot rely on this website reporting reliable data. Here is the European Commission Radiation Map: https://…

... I hope that low pressure isn't from a vacuum bomb.

I think any monitoring system close enough to see 0 mm Hg pressure will have been destroyed by the shockwave before it could report that complete vacuum.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#342

Post by revscat »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

This touches on why I think humanity will not survive for much longer. Global warming continues to be a civilization-ending level threat, and yet it continues to be more or less ignored. Vast swathes of the population believe that their egos can determine reality, no matter the actual physical reality they so hubristically ignore.

> we’re not capable of

I don’t think so, either. This sentiment tends to be met by the techno-futurists on this site with swift downvotes, though, so is not a popular one to espouse here. Nevertheless I believe it to be true based on the evidence at hand: humanity is too short-sighted to prevent its own doom.

I believe nuclear power is essential to the survival of humanity. I also think you are likely correct: humanity cannot be trusted with nuclear power. If true, this is yet another data point against our survival.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#343

Post by csee »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

This is an old power plant. Do your concerns hold true for newer designs?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#344

Post by postalrat »

trhway wrote: post #90
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One side goes “hey they won’t shoot us if we’re near the plant”. The other side goes “hey no fair”. Things escalate. It’s war, and it sucks.

One side was unarmed civilians blocking the road to the plant for couple days until Russians started to shoot and wounded several civilians.

In other conflicts those are known as human shields.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#345

Post by nomel »

bastawhiz wrote: post #329
nomel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a pretty serious assumption that they're doing something haphazard rather than something calculated and planned. What's your reason for first assuming incompetence?

The last time I checked, being Russian doesn't make you immune to radiation. Controlling land is pretty pointless if you've poisoned it into uninhabitability for the next few generations or so.

What makes you think that what they're doing has significant risk of making the land uninhabitable? All we know is that there's a fire at the perimeter. That's it. It could be that what they're doing has little risk. From reading the twitter threads, seen elsewhere in this comment section, that seems to be the case. Not surprisingly, nuclear power plants are made pretty well.

I don't think there's any evidence that they're acting irrationally, from within their context. Making the land uninhabitable would be irrational, for everything we know of their context.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#346

Post by galangalalgol »

Zandikar wrote: post #96
ISL wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see munitions impacts about 2 hr ago as well as somewhat later (will edit in a moment). Flares ~1:36 ago. These timestamps relative to ~1715 PST.

https://twitter.com/AlexandruC4/status/1499546302786510853 more recent firing, from about 15minutes ago as well.

someone elsewhere in this thread wrote that bombing a nuclear plant was considered a war crime, if this is on video, will it likely be used in the current UN investigation of Russian war crimes?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#347

Post by archibaldJ »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #337
archibaldJ wrote: post #322

I gradually stop seeing this as a war just for the freedom of the Ukrainian people. This is a war for the progress of humanity. A war between the new and old worlds. With more breakthroughs in nuclear fusion energy and policies [1], the gradual adoption of nuclear (as well as EV tech) will soon mark the end of old world. The implication of this is beyond anything anyone can conceive as we do not truly know what becom…

Even if ITER finished today and worked - aren't we still AT LEAST 15 years away from Fusion energy being cheaper than solar? It seems like the current renewable trend will phase out most fossil fuels BEFORE the most optimistic timeline for Fusion energy being a viable alternative.

Well.. Do not underestimate the incompetence blighting this world and the potentials and ingenuity in people that want to change. That's what I like to remind myself in uncertain times.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#348

Post by [deleted] »

Aeolun wrote: post #176
jtsuken wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just realised that the point I've made in response to a comment probably should be a level higher: Don't trust the radiation monitoring system , the actual monitoring system has been destroyed by a rocket impact three days ago. The monitoring system has been shot down on 1 Sep. Here is the statement from the Nuclear Agency in Ukraine: On March 1, 2022 at 11:40 as a result of rocket impact, the communication network o…

Damn, maybe one of the sides should consider fixing that before they proceed with shooting at each other.

[deleted]

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#349

Post by magpi3 »

ummonk wrote: post #284
purple_ferret wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the difference if Putin invaded a NATO state and NATO was forced to defend? What would be the difference if he starts losing the war and needs to kick it up a notch? Is there any less chance he'd use nukes? Serious question. Threatening nukes is a rational move. Actually using them is not.

In general, the side that cares about the conflict more is more likely to engage in direct conflict, and escalate to nuclear use if their goals are being thwarted by conventional war. To Russia, Ukraine is a core interest, and thus they're the most likely to escalate to tactical nuclear weapons if NATO intervenes and Russia starts losing. With a NATO country, that calculus changes, and if for some crazy reason Russia…

A nuclear would most likely mean the end of the world.

Russia's core interest should be preventing the end of the world. If Putin is rational, he will never initiate a nuclear war. If he is irrational, he will not stop with Ukraine.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#350

Post by colechristensen »

yabones wrote: post #314

This has been a real reckoning for me, as somebody who has historically been very pro-nuclear. Quite simply, humanity is too good at screwing things up to harness such a fundamentally powerful and dangerous source of power. It requires a commitment to long lasting peace and stability that we're just not capable of.

Humanity is fine, just some parts are quite far ahead of others. We just have to get rid of autocrats and authoritarianism. There will be some slides backwards as people in difficult situations value their opinions and risk aversion more than others’ freedoms, and there are plenty of places where people are just fine with their autocrats continuing to rule.

Progress, for the most part, can’t be given.

It is hopeful that Ukraine is having some real success fighting back and for the most part without an external force coming in and trying to do it for them.

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