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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

reuters.com

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#331

Post by sidibe »

armada651 wrote: post #321
boringg wrote: post #274

So, aside from the obvious nature of messing around with Nuclear generating station being an idiotic move. From a tactical move for Russia - clearly they want the generating station offline to cause further chaos in Ukraine and that it supplies 1/6 of the power I believe(?). Was the generating station fighting to say online / not surrender or did Russia just show up guns blazing? It's clearly a tactically important s…

The only public statement I've read is that the Russian Army is concerned the Ukrainians would use their Nuclear Power Plants as dirty bombs.

It doesn't surprise me if they believe that considering the ridiculous stream of fantasy being spewed out of Russian leader and media.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#332

Post by [deleted] »

agumonkey wrote: post #323
armada651 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only public statement I've read is that the Russian Army is concerned the Ukrainians would use their Nuclear Power Plants as dirty bombs.

devious ukrainians even built a whole plant in advance to ensure their genocides

[deleted]

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#333

Post by andbberger »

hinkley wrote: post #204
andbberger wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the danger of radiation has been greatly exaggerated and pales in comparison the existential risk of climate change. even accounting for black swan events like getting hit by an airliner, coal plants emit drastically more radiation than nuclear. it's not a rational risk assessment. making nuclear energy economically unfeasible by mandating that things be drastically overbuilt has doomed us all to climate catastrophe

That may be true for the number of actual plants we have, but public sentiment against nuclear is why we don't have 10, even 100 times as many plants as we do now. If you start shifting decimal points two positions to the right, and diminishing the distance between plants, between plants and critical habitat, by an order of magnitude (separation is square root of density per area), those numbers aren't quite as rosy.…

Earth is _very_ big, safety numbers are given per kWh, waste heat is insignificant compared to total insolation and all other generation methods generate the same amount of waste heat (that’s the law). Solar wind and hydro kind of cheat with the accounting though.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#334

Post by chasd00 »

kilroy123 wrote: post #246
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risks of nuclear war from a NATO militarily intervention are far too high to even consider it. I’m sorry to say, but there is really nothing that could happen in Ukraine that would be bad enough for us to accept the risk of nuclear annihilation.

I think if Russia resorted to using nuclear weapons against Ukraine we would intervene.

I’ve been wondering if that convoy outside of Kyiv is really stopped because serious thought is being given to the idea of a nuclear attack to save a long bloody insurgency.

I don’t know if NATO would respond to a nuclear attack on Kyiv. Would NATO attack knowing the destruction of London/Paris/NYC/etc would be almost guaranteed?

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#335

Post by tenpies »

belval wrote: post #282
ummonk wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody shelled a nuclear plant. Russian forces drove into the parking lot of a nuclear plant, had two RPGs fired upon them from an administrative building and fired machine guns back at the administrative building. There were fires and after some time the fighting was sorted out and firefighters put out the fire.

All headlines are about Russians shelling a nuclear plant. You can say that's fake news, but at least provide a shred of evidence (like any article?). > KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian forces pressed their attack on a crucial energy-producing Ukrainian city by shelling Europe’s largest nuclear plant early Friday, sparking a fire and raising fears that radiation could leak from the damaged power station. https://apnews.c…

I think the best stance is what we should all know by now: Ukraine is highly propagandistic because their victory scenario involves getting NATO directly involved and escalating a regional conflict into a World War.

So let's treat any information coming out from them as such and wait 1 day for more accurate accounts to come in.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#336

Post by EthanHeilman »

chrsig wrote: post #296
hexo wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, no, bombing nuclear power plant is a warcrime.

I mean, I agree that it'd be an incredibly inhumane thing to do, and a very bad idea that shouldn't occur ...but war crimes seem like they should only really be applicable to an aggressor. How can we tell another nation how it's allowed to defend itself? If you don't want to suffer inhumanity from an aggrieved nation, perhaps stop invading it.

War crimes do and should apply to a defender.

The main idea behind a war crime is that it is an act which has limited military utility or in many cases is counter productive from a military standpoint but causes human suffering. That is, it is a clear and unnecessary act of violence. For instance killing prisoners of war since it is often more beneficial for a military to accept a surrender than to offer no quarter.

Most ethical systems argue that human beings have a right to protect their own life with deadly force, but if during a self defense encounter you intentionally go out of your way to execute bystanders you can not use self-defense as a justification. This is because in that case you are just using self-defense as a cover to murder people.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#337

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

archibaldJ wrote: post #322

I gradually stop seeing this as a war just for the freedom of the Ukrainian people. This is a war for the progress of humanity. A war between the new and old worlds. With more breakthroughs in nuclear fusion energy and policies [1], the gradual adoption of nuclear (as well as EV tech) will soon mark the end of old world. The implication of this is beyond anything anyone can conceive as we do not truly know what becom…

Even if ITER finished today and worked - aren't we still AT LEAST 15 years away from Fusion energy being cheaper than solar?

It seems like the current renewable trend will phase out most fossil fuels BEFORE the most optimistic timeline for Fusion energy being a viable alternative.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#338

Post by [deleted] »

bastawhiz wrote: post #329
nomel wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a pretty serious assumption that they're doing something haphazard rather than something calculated and planned. What's your reason for first assuming incompetence?

The last time I checked, being Russian doesn't make you immune to radiation. Controlling land is pretty pointless if you've poisoned it into uninhabitability for the next few generations or so.

[deleted]

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#340

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ABeeSea wrote: post #330
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why isn’t it? Because the effects of a nuclear meltdown are closer to that of a chemical attack and far away from that of a thermonuclear detonation. Blurry red lines cease to be lines.

If the plant melts down and explodes sending nuclear material for 100s of miles that wouldn’t be nuclear war?

> If the plant melts down and explodes sending nuclear material for 100s of miles that wouldn’t be nuclear war?

No. Because, again, if you detonated a thermonuclear weapon above that same space, the difference would be night and day.

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