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Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

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Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#51
post #16

Live stream from plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8 Automated Radiation Monitoring system: https://www.npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms

Doesn't look like radiation levels are going up at the moment, do you know how often this page is updated?

currently says 03/04/2022 - 03:06, so putting this here for reference Edit: Then saw an update at 03:10 so it is updating

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#52

I do not understand, why are they fighting near the reactor? It only makes sense to keep troops of both sides away from something as dangerous.

Sense? What about any of this makes sense?

That is indeed the fundamental issue still. The invasion of Ukraine is simply insane and will absolutely hurt Russia far more than it can ever benefit. That's the really scary part which makes this all terribly unpredictable.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#55
post #21

Live stream from plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8 Automated Radiation Monitoring system: https://www.npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms

Thanks. So what’s the historical norm on those numbers?

0.1 microsieverts (uSv) per hour is normal background radiation rate. Right now in my apartment (far from Ukraine) the dose rate is 0.12 uSv/h.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#56
post #21

Live stream from plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYUT36YGOh8 Automated Radiation Monitoring system: https://www.npp.zp.ua/en/safety/arms

Thanks. So what’s the historical norm on those numbers?

Can't say historical, but 1,000 μsv/year is the annual limit / point at which increase cancer risk exists.

Fukushima disaster levels were 400,000 μSv/h at peak. Short term dose of 10,000 μSv causes radiation sickness but probably not death. Beyond that it gets worse.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#57
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please provide a source for this claim? I searched Bloomberg (as you claimed that you saw it mentioned there), and this [1] appears to be the only coverage of it at the momement. There is no mention of radiation levels increasing in the area. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-03/russia-at...

A Ukrainian official told the AP this about 15 minutes ago. Not fully confirmed yet.

Thank you. Their article mentions a government employee saying elevated radiation levels were detected. They also say that this is unofficial until a public announcement.

[1] https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-a3092d8e476949...

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#58

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

No. It is many orders of magnitude less dangerous. It would potentially cause thousands of deaths, not hundreds of millions . This is true even if a melt down was caused, like Chernobyl, which others have already explained is quite improbable. Chernobyl caused between ~100 and ~16,000 deaths, depending sensitively on how one models the effects of small (sub-natural-background) radiation increases over a large populat…

Nuclear war can be many things. There are small nukes not designed to level cities.

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#59

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

A few artillery shells probably won't breach the containment. Missile shielding is part of the plant design (I don't know what level of shielding; US plants are designed to withstand a strike by an airliner). Not saying that the attack is thus acceptable, just saying that it will take a concerted effort to breach the containment.

You'd think that nuclear energy would be pretty compelling economically if other power generation methods had to be designed to withstand a strike from an airliner

Re: Fire extinguished at Ukraine nuclear power plant, Europe's largest

#60

I would argue that this is a near equivalence of nuclear war with Ukraine. A well-/mis-placed Russian artillery shell could cause a loss of reactor integrity and meltdown, no? EDIT: according to child comments, a meltdown is unlikely/impossible, but spread of radioactive particles due to a direct strike is possible.

No. It is many orders of magnitude less dangerous. It would potentially cause thousands of deaths, not hundreds of millions . This is true even if a melt down was caused, like Chernobyl, which others have already explained is quite improbable. Chernobyl caused between ~100 and ~16,000 deaths, depending sensitively on how one models the effects of small (sub-natural-background) radiation increases over a large populat…

I am using nuclear war in a literal sense, but I do see how my wording seems sensationalist given historical context.
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