The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#91

Post by francisofascii » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #41

pmoriarty wrote: post #13

Things contributing to my own (severe) burnout: 1 - Lack of variety, leading to boredom. After decades in the industry, I'm super bored with the things I know, and not in the least bit interested in learning more technical minutia of whatever flavor... pretty much all of it feels the same. The things I'm still interested in (like Scheme) are pretty obscure, so I'm unlikely to ever get to work with them. I hate all th…

> Chronic understaffing, crazy time pressure, and lack of resources. This is endemic in the tech field. Plenty of SW jobs where this is not a problem (some even have good pay, not FAANG level, though). Go interview, and ask questions during the interview about it. Questions I've asked: 1. I don't check my email when I go home (unless there's a cross-geo meeting or something). Is that workable with this job? 2. What i…

This. The tech, role, salary, and checklists like the Joel Test are less important to me now, than questions like this.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#92

Post by heurist » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #37

The world is burning, carbon emissions are increasing despite a global pandemic, democracy is in backslide, and I'm doing stupid shit that really doesn't matter. My children will grow up in a hotter, thirstier, more dangerous world. Nothing I'm doing is going to improve this. My job is cush. I work remote. I make good money. But I stare blankly at the screen and just can't bring myself to care. I eye climatebase and…

I'm at a company with a sustainability and technology-oriented mission that still can't get its shit together and let me do my damn job. Grass is always greener. The mission does help, though.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#93

Post by tkiolp4 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #41

pmoriarty wrote: post #13

Things contributing to my own (severe) burnout: 1 - Lack of variety, leading to boredom. After decades in the industry, I'm super bored with the things I know, and not in the least bit interested in learning more technical minutia of whatever flavor... pretty much all of it feels the same. The things I'm still interested in (like Scheme) are pretty obscure, so I'm unlikely to ever get to work with them. I hate all th…

> Chronic understaffing, crazy time pressure, and lack of resources. This is endemic in the tech field. Plenty of SW jobs where this is not a problem (some even have good pay, not FAANG level, though). Go interview, and ask questions during the interview about it. Questions I've asked: 1. I don't check my email when I go home (unless there's a cross-geo meeting or something). Is that workable with this job? 2. What i…

The problem about being oncall is not how many times you get called, it’s that you cannot plan anything in your free time without having to take your laptop with you.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#94

Post by lumost » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #14

lumost wrote: post #6

Something that doesn't seem explored here is the effect of working on ineffective work. Everyone will encounter something like the following in their career 1. There is a problem that your customers and you face - but you are not allowed to solve it for "Reasons" 2. The product area will never work, but you must continue working on things that no one will ever use for "reasons". Ever write exhaustive test coverage fo…

100% agreed. I'm not sure how big a problem this is, but it's been huge for me personally. I write software because I like solving problems for people. It's gratifying to build clever things, but for me it has to end in making the world better somehow. Even if it's just one person, which has happened when I'm building in-house tools. But there's so much out there that isn't about actually getting things done. E.g., t…

It's funny, I recently attempted to learn the latter lesson in order to get a good paycheck and build something really exciting. After 3+ years of working on making something happen, I finally realized that it either wasn't going to happen - or the company would never let me be the one to do it.

After hanging up the towel officially, my mind is boggled by how much the constant pushing against a wall was weighing on me.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#95

Post by porker » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

For me burnout comes from imposter syndrome. It's being surrounded by a tech world with people who are so certain about everything, and especially that their way is right. Where there's no nuance or context taken into account.

I find it exhausting as I'm constantly questioning myself. And, despite delivering projects that help people and work for the business, I always seem to be swimming against the tide of (programmer) opinion.

20 years down, another 20 to go.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#96

Post by mparnisari » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #6

Something that doesn't seem explored here is the effect of working on ineffective work. Everyone will encounter something like the following in their career 1. There is a problem that your customers and you face - but you are not allowed to solve it for "Reasons" 2. The product area will never work, but you must continue working on things that no one will ever use for "reasons". Ever write exhaustive test coverage fo…

1 and 2 are the reasons I left my previous job. I was not motivated at all.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#97

Post by mparnisari » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

tkiolp4 wrote: post #93

BeetleB wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chronic understaffing, crazy time pressure, and lack of resources. This is endemic in the tech field. Plenty of SW jobs where this is not a problem (some even have good pay, not FAANG level, though). Go interview, and ask questions during the interview about it. Questions I've asked: 1. I don't check my email when I go home (unless there's a cross-geo meeting or something). Is that workable with this job? 2. What i…

The problem about being oncall is not how many times you get called, it’s that you cannot plan anything in your free time without having to take your laptop with you.

For me is the other way around, i don't mind taking my laptop everywhere, but i loathe getting a page at 3am

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#98

Post by BaseballPhysics » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #34

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true. Management will shred through IC engineers, getting results but burning alot of them out in the process. Theres no accountability, and in some respects, its good business for them. They get the work done, the burnout really doesnt have that many repercussions. The overarching issue is: you need stability/healthy employees at the higher levels, at the lower levels it doesnt matter. You cant have…

It's actually terrible business because constantly having to hire, train, and ramp up new engineers takes up so much more time than retaining staff would. But no one wants to hear that when X needs to be released by Y and we can make that happen if our engs just work a little harder/longer.

> It's actually terrible business because constantly having to hire, train, and ramp up new engineers takes up so much more time than retaining staff would.

And who has to go through all that?

The managers.

Trust me, we don't want it any more than the ICs do. But senior/executive management doesn't feel the pain and therefore doesn't care.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#99

Post by BaseballPhysics » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

apohn wrote: post #84

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After burning out on tech I really should have switched to another career... or even tried management Just a tip from someone who made that jump: If those five things you listed contributed to your burnout, trust me, moving into management won't help. 1. Management is the same damn slog day after day. You deal with people acting like children, senior management who lack any coherent vision and don't know what they'…

I was a manager at one point, and the combination of #3 and #4 basically killed my interest in management. As an IC, your manager can tell you to do something that makes no sense. They can either agree with you or disagree about how stupid it is, but if it comes from above it has to be done. As an IC, you just do it and try your best to disconnect emotionally and get it over with. As a manager, you first listen to yo…

> As a manager, you first listen to your manager tell you to do something that makes no sense. You push back, but they say your team has to do it. You take it to your direct report and they push back, and now you are forcing somebody to work on something they rightfully don't agree it. Unless you are an a$$shole, it's hard to disconnect emotionally when you are forcing somebody to do something you don't agree with. Do that over and over...it really takes a toll.

Yup. What you've just described is the trap of having all the accountability but none of the control, and it's profoundly demoralizing.

Re: The state of burnout in tech, 2022 edition [pdf]

#100

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

francisofascii wrote: post #89

Maximus9000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are companies that you could work for that would be win-win. Companies that are making the world better and still require talented software developers.

Which industries are you referring? I feel like most industries that have job openings is suspect from a moral perspective.

Some of the companies I have spoken with, or would like to:

culdesac.com (car-free urban communities) planet.com cervest.earth

also jobs at climatebase.org and naturetech.io

If I were in urban design I'd look at https://www.humankind.city/ among other similar organisations. The EU made a bunch of urban mobility related content free at https://urbanmobilitycourses.eu, my favourite is https://urbanmobilitycourses.eu/courses/free-visualization-t...