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Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

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Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#71

Post by blub »

harshreality wrote: post #20

This initially may seem like unproductive, mistargeted overreaction. However, consider that if Russians can't do what they want to do, maybe they'll focus more efforts on fixing their country so it stops the invasion and doesn't do something like this ever again. It may not work, but every Russian needs to be thinking about that, with priority over their jobs and hobbies. Making things painful for them is one way to…

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve read online. When it comes to war, countries like Russia or the US do whatever they want whenever they want, no matter how the population feels about it.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#72

Post by brimble »

endisneigh wrote: post #64
harshreality wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to defend America's military adventurism, but do you really see no difference between a limited military campaign against a brutal dictator (and yes, partially over control of oil) vs a campaign to take over a bordering, more-democratic country for mythological ethic reasons, including by shelling cities?

Are you suggesting killing innocent people is somehow more righteous if a the area is not democratic? Didn't the USA carpet bomb many places in the Middle East with drones? Again, not to create a false equivalency but I believe the OPs point is that shouldn’t Americans be ostracized?

> Didn't the USA carpet bomb many places in the Middle East with drones?

The drone war's been horrible, but "carpet bomb" means a specific thing, so, no, the USA did not do that

[EDIT] To be clear, this isn't pedantry—that doesn't even figuratively describe what's gone on.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#73

Post by somenameforme »

forgetfulness wrote: post #45
zero_shift wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grischuk has already made public statements against the war. What else do you want him to do, blow up the Duma?

And Russia is a country where high profile dissenters do risk their freedom if not their lives outright. The people comfortably making this decision from Norway aren't doing anything like that. This tells to Russians that the world doesn't care about them, individually, risking their lives to stop the actions of their Government as they like to claim.

I would also add that Grischuk was under no obligation to say anything that he did. He was even rudely cut off by the 'host' at one point. And he even mentioned that in his phrasing he was going to avoid using the war since it's illegal in the media, and he wants them to be able to quote him.

If there was ever a man you want with a voice and face in the media at a time like now, it would be somebody like Grischuk. This is somebody that, especially in times like now, that should be elevated. Instead he's going to be effectively depersoned on the international stage and effectively silenced, seemingly like every single Russian regardless of their wrongthink or lack thereof. What a world we're creating.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#74

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #60

This is getting really stupid. Anytime there is some major event we always work to try to ensure that people appreciate there is a difference between the people of a country and the bad actors of a country - even when those bad actors are the government. But now because it's our favorite geopolitical enemy, everything goes out the window. Imagine if the victims of our wars (or their partners) were more influential an…

[deleted]

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#75

Post by goto11 »

endisneigh wrote: post #57
goto11 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is obviously to punish those causing the harm directly, no? You mean direct war against Russia? That would certainly also cause collateral damage on innocents.

Fighting the people directly who are holding the guns will do less “collateral damage” than uniform discrimination of all Russians. I’m not a fan of violence in general, though. Ideally they’d find another way without killing anyone.

> Fighting the people directly who are holding the guns will do less “collateral damage” than uniform discrimination of all Russians.

Nato forces directly attacking Russian military in Ukraine would be the start of a third world war. The collateral damage of a direct war between Nato and Russia would be unfathomable.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#76

Post by forgetfulness »

somenameforme wrote: post #73
forgetfulness wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Russia is a country where high profile dissenters do risk their freedom if not their lives outright. The people comfortably making this decision from Norway aren't doing anything like that. This tells to Russians that the world doesn't care about them, individually, risking their lives to stop the actions of their Government as they like to claim.

I would also add that Grischuk was under no obligation to say anything that he did. He was even rudely cut off by the 'host' at one point. And he even mentioned that in his phrasing he was going to avoid using the war since it's illegal in the media, and he wants them to be able to quote him. If there was ever a man you want with a voice and face in the media at a time like now, it would be somebody like Grischuk. Th…

These kinds of attitudes show to me that much of the western world didn't draw many lessons from 1914 other than that you can do more than figurative painting in the visual arts.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#77

Post by somenameforme »

jstx1 wrote: post #4

Not sure why the title is about Grischuk specifically, Norway Chess banned all Russian players. Which sucks given that many of these players have spoken up against what Russia is doing. Seems like they're being penalized unnecessarily.

Grischuk is a special personality who most of any chess enthusiast will know. This is like banning a Michael Jordan style personality - charismatic, charming, and a world class player on top. And he does this all in his own sort of unique deadpan style package. His demeanor and comments from the video in this thread are **EXTREMELY** out of character for him, emphasizing how much this is all clearly personally affecting him.

This is an absolutely stupid decision, and an injustice.

Two wrong don't make a right and two million wrongs most certainly don't.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#78

Post by [deleted] »

shtopointo wrote: post #41

What’s with all these cancellations of Russian citizens? Surely this is not going to look good at the end of this war, and it’ll just be more propaganda for the Russian gov’t to use - “look, the west doesn’t care about you”. Is this just “cancel culture” exposed in a different area?

[deleted]

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#79

Post by endisneigh »

brimble wrote: post #72
endisneigh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting killing innocent people is somehow more righteous if a the area is not democratic? Didn't the USA carpet bomb many places in the Middle East with drones? Again, not to create a false equivalency but I believe the OPs point is that shouldn’t Americans be ostracized?

> Didn't the USA carpet bomb many places in the Middle East with drones? The drone war's been horrible, but "carpet bomb" means a specific thing, so, no, the USA did not do that [EDIT] To be clear, this isn't pedantry—that doesn't even figuratively describe what's gone on.

Is this not carpet bombing?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-ir...

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#80

Post by jdrc »

burmanm wrote: post #27
TomGullen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working class Russians are not the problem either, yet the sanctions penalise them the most.

And that usually plays to the advantage of the elite. Now the working class has only one supporter, the Russian government. Their propaganda of "west hates you" feels very real to them now. This is quite age old tactic that usually doesn't work, punishing civilians in the war usually does not demoralize them, but works against the aggressor. Same can be said about these sanctions. Why would they trust the west if we…

OTOH that has been the propaganda of Putin the entire decade. At some point supporters have to face the consequences as well
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