Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#791

Post by blitzar » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:55 AM UTC

IMTDb wrote: post #783

blitzar wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All great for you ... but hey lets think of the little people like the shareholders of google... 257 billion in profit in 2021 (share price closed 2800), from 89 billion in 2019 (share price closed 1350). Hey look it works for them too, everyone is a winner!

What part of these profits comes from work actually done remotely during the pandemic ? What you are proving is that the Google model of hiring extremely talented devs, paying them handsomely, and asking them to spend days in their campus allowed them to create a company that takes in billion of profits even during a pandemic. Which part of the Google offer significantly changed thanks to work done during the pandemi…

> All these profits come from something that was built - in person - in pre pandemic work organisation, so we know that this was was successful.

This is very true.

It is also true that these built products were operated in a remote work environment - meaningful, and significantly enhanced profits were extracted when operating these assets remotely vs operating them in person. Sample size is small of course and time will tell.

Stadia, not a great example, build in person - launched and operated remotely. Was its failure due to it being poorly built or poorly operated? Fellow owner and former user of the service, I didnt think it was that bad technically, but understand I am in the significant minority on that one.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#792

Post by ihateolives » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:58 AM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #673

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach.

It works when the team is used to and knows how to connect with each other online and to keep those connections going through the day/week. I'm an (highly functioning) introvert and even I hate video onboarding. I've done it twice during pandemic and it sucks big time if the team is not ready for online lifestyle/workstyle. Several months in and I still don't feel like I belong, it's just all the people busying away on their own, like in a univerity groupwork. I miss my old work when the chat was actually a place for smalltalk, instead of a place for just sharing technical knowledge or updating progress.

Feels like some companies think that remote work is exactly like onsite, just virtually. Well, it's not. Dynamics is different, workflow is different, everybody has to adapt. I genuinely want to work remote, I don't think I'll be back to office anymore, but I still need the team that knows how to actually be a team online.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#793

Post by t43562 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

The same knobs who outsource jobs to countries in far away timezones tend to argue that being in an office is important.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#794

Post by Hendrikto » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:01 AM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #673

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

I agree that working from home is great, and this is really not important, but I have to ask:

> I can have someone come by and cut my cat's claws whenever need be.

You have somebody else come over to cut your cat‘s claws?

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#795

Post by ihateolives » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #766

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

I very much agree and I’m looking for another job because my company is forcing me back for 3/5 days because of this. I’m not going back to that.

Onsite/online split is the worse, unless you work with just a laptop and nothing else then you'd have to have duplicate setups at work/home and at least I'm always leaving things eithere here or there and then missing them.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#796

Post by peakaboo » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:03 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Completely disagree. We have proven that a lot of developers are both happier and more productive when working remotely.

The open office is the absolute worst possible environment for being productive. I could probably be more productive in the middle of a highway.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#797

Post by cryptica » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

buzzert wrote: post #472

cryptica wrote: post #396

It's easier to brainwash and gaslight the employees when you control their environment.

Yep, certainly none of that happening on the Internet…

Internet mostly creates confusion. The first phase of brainwashing. Once the mind is confused and looking for answers, you need peer pressure and social reinforcement to create a sense of certainty around the radical new ideas you want to implant.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#798

Post by solididiot » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

carom wrote: post #393

skybrian wrote: post #201

I've worked at a startup where everyone being there was essential in how we worked. (We were all pair programming.) It was great. It beats code reviews any day. I learned a lot. But when I was at Google, we would schedule VC meetings with people in a different part of campus just to avoid the walk. Also, I worked on teams that had people worked out in many offices, mostly not Mountain View. I was surrounded by Google…

Lonely is an incredibly accurate way to describe working at Google. Everyone says the office perks are there to trick you to stay, but our work area was quieter than a library and no one hung around. If people were talking they'd legit catch themselves and be like, we should grab a conference room. Incredibly polite but also an uncomfortably quiet environment. I think a lot of people just wanted to put in their hours…

Worked for a much lesser international company and it was exactly the same minus the politeness. I had to find a quiet corner to get some work done.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#799

Post by motbus3 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

so you are the kind the interrupt people train of thought to get your stuff done and let them to work til late

:P

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#800

Post by blub » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:16 AM UTC

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #669

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

People should have an option to go fully remote, not be forced to do X number of days because reasons. This is the problem that remote work solves. It gives you some sense of autonomy so that you don't feel like a completely subservient slave. Also you said objectively it has not been proven but your subjective opinion is that it's better to be in office. What I will counter is that remote is almost certainly better…

Software developers are not completely subservient slaves. But some of them are certainly obnoxious prima donnas and like throwing tantrums about their oh so terrible working conditions.