Not everyone should meditate • Hacker News Board

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#231

Post by bambataa » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:27 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #197

argentinian wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be quite horrible if that was true, your eternal suffering hypothesis. But fortunately I see no evidence to believe it.

Buddhism is basically (basically) predicated on the idea, I don't see why it's horrible to acknowledge the possibility, especially if it could be true.

I wonder if a lot of the original Buddhist cosmology was based on the experiences of meditators having what we now call psychotic episodes, which they would have seen as a glimpse of reality.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#232

Post by leobg » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:29 AM UTC

cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

"You are not responsible for your own thinking." B.F. Skinner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpDmRc8-pyU&t=793s

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#233

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:32 AM UTC

labrador wrote: post #115

joshcsimmons wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad you found a combo that works for you. I don’t know many Christians that demonize meditation, but I’m sure they’re out there.

Out there? I get almost 6 million hits for "meditation demonic" and it really bugs me to having something so helpful to me slurred like this. I suggest you make it clear where you stand on the issue if you're going to write about and sneakily slur it without letting us know you dogmatic positions. edit: https://www.google.com/search?q=meditation+demonic

[deleted]

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#234

Post by iamacyborg » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:33 AM UTC

cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

I think you’d enjoy reading Selfie by William Storr. It talks a lot about the left brain observer and various experiments that have observed what you’re talking about.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#235

Post by Flankk » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:39 AM UTC

argentinian wrote: post #139

julienb_sea wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't exhibit complete control over our thoughts, that is provably impossible and anecdotally obvious when reflecting on errant thoughts we have experienced. Free will is about behavior, not thoughts. Our free will is demonstrated by our ability to consciously choose whether and how to act when presented with thoughts and emotions.

Ha, it's like Hume said. If your actions and thoughts depend on past events and biological and environmental stimulus, they are not free, they are conditioned, they are a reaction to past experience. And the alternative would be random actions, and random is not free, it's random.

Color, the scent of a flower, music, a delicious meal, beauty, struggle, love, meaning, free will. These things only exist in your mind. If objective reality exists at all, it is of vanishingly small importance.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#236

Post by elbear » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:47 AM UTC

Flankk wrote: post #210

gregfjohnson wrote: post #205

A helpful concept from Thomas Keating is "the evacuation of the unconscious". The idea is that it is normal to have painful thoughts arise into our consciousness when we enter into meditation. It is common in ordinary life to get into the habit of filling one's life with noise and distraction, in order to keep sources of anxiety or other negative emotions at bay. Meditation lessens the noise and distraction, which ha…

This is my experience as well. You gain self awareness and it helps your focus. I haven't experienced ghosts or orbs myself. The author should question his own sanity instead of being concerned with others.

Your positive experience doesn't discount others' unpleasant one. Through meditation you can reach deep into the unconscious.

The safe approach is to start with practices that get you more in touch with the body, that get you to become more aware of the body. If you are grounded in the body, it's a lot easier to face whatever unpleasant emotions or sensations might come up.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#237

Post by naruvimama » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:52 AM UTC

TLDR;

Every major school or lineage originating from Sanathana Dharma insists on the importance of a guru's guidance and/or initiation. Yet people decide to ignore it and think Apps can/should replace a guru.

Going it alone comes with its risks, there are many who have done it having taken extreme plunges, some throwing away their last piece of clothing (or their kingdoms) to erase themselves of the memory & attachment to their past.

Bringing it into our narrow world view trivialises this seeking, yes it is not the same, few people have true seeking to understand/experience reality.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#238

Post by 1_player » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

krageon wrote: post #218

1_player wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. They're Christian but their argument is more nuanced than just thinking meditation is opening up to the dark side. I think it's worth talking about, especially given the experiences shared by other posters in the comments.

> their argument is more nuanced than just thinking meditation is opening up to the dark side Is it? Viewed through that lens, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of nuance.

The point I'm making is I'm not sure they're viewing it through that lens, but rather GP is dismissing the article because the author is Christian and _some_ of them are known to be against meditation. It does not segue that all Christians are against it. GP seems to be the biased one here with a preconceived opinion.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#239

Post by HPsquared » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 9:55 AM UTC

cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

There's the idea that the world is a simulation. I believe it is, but not in the "Matrix" kind of way - more that everything you perceive and experience is a "model" of the outside world that your brain has constructed from the various input signals.

You only see a partial reconstruction, a projection of the outside world, literally Plato's cave (the cave being the skull). Sometimes things come in from outside (what you see etc) but most activity is internal.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#240

Post by pasiaj » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

argentinian wrote: post #142

heyoni wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit on day 5. My life started playing itself in my head on repeat and I started to focus on all the pain. I would imagine the universe dying and coming back to life where everything, especially some nasty events would reoccur ad infinitum. I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. I had a panic attack, and then another and finally ta…

> I was convinced that the people who were unlucky in this life were actually suffering for eternity and practically lost it. Do you have some idea now about why that conviction seemed believable to you at that moment?

I had a similar experience that I might be able to explain logically.

I was thinking about death, the exact moment of death, and thought about the last sensation felt by a dying person.

I had a thought that the last affect you experience subjectively never goes away. That if you feel horrible at the moment of your death, subjectively that feeling never goes away.

That idea and feeling shook me and made me think of heaven and hell being abstractions of the last subjective affect that you are ”stuck” with.

I understand that this is nonsense, but it ties well together with abstract consepts about soul and afterlife and logic in a way that allowed my mind to create a model it, and feel all the horrible outcomes of that model.

The model felt plausible enough to trigger strong emotion.

It did not trigger anything long lasting - just a momentary feeling of terror.