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Not everyone should meditate

joshcsimmons.com

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Re: Not everyone should meditate

#131

Post by jes »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #40

Has anyone here ever tried Waking Up app by Sam Harris? I am working through the intro course now and very much enjoying it and finding it helpful, but I don't have a good base reference to know if he knows his stuff. I am not interested in the spiritual side of meditation so much as the learning to be in my own head a bit more stably and acknowledge and understand my emotions/thought more productively. Any advice wo…

I subscribed to the app and used it almost daily for a few years. I found it helpful.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#133

Post by electriclizard »

kranke155 wrote: post #87

The author might be more correct than he imagines. I suffer from bipolar disorder, which was “activated” during a heavy meditation period 5 years ago or so. My therapist now advises me to stay away from it. She says that meditation is a form of “self hypnosis” and that I should stay away from daily practice, which is what I had previously.

It's been a bit like having access to my computer's terminal for me. I didn't expect the power. I did way more than just turn off the distractions. I fucked some shit up and had to spend some time in the shop. But I also learned how to fix the stuff that was broken and then stay the hell away from the terminal the rest of the time.

My issue was mainly that I couldn't turn the UI back on. But also I fucked up all the links and the whole system was out of order.

Now I still use it when necessary because I still have bugs, which is really easy because just thinking about it will pop it open. But I mostly use it to signal to me when the UI is starting to fade away; not something I was good at before.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#134

Post by verve_rat »

kragen wrote: post #74
ssijak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you eat one cube of sugar in a coffee per day and no sweets you are good. If you eat one kilo of sugar each day you'll probably get diabetes in a few months.

I think the picture is a little more complicated than that. There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole, though there are some exceptions. So it's evidently not the kind of thing where a continuous overdose will leave your mind or your body disabled; on the contrary, the meditators tend to live lo…

> There have been entire monasteries full of people who spend many hours a day meditating for thousands of years. They don't seem to be mentally unhealthy on the whole,

Not to be snarky (ok maybe a little), but they do believe in unprovable beings on some "higher" plane of existence...

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#135

Post by cromd »

DennisP wrote: post #127
cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

The thoughts do come up out of nowhere, unpredictably. But with practice, I can choose whether to inhabit them, or simply note them with quiet amusement and let them pass by. I can also pick something to concentrate on, and stay mostly focused on that, while those extra little thoughts just flutter in the background. This all seems to me like an enhancement of free will. (Meditating almost daily.)

I do get these feelings of control, so I can't say I feel like a victim of my thoughts - "let them pass by", as you say, is mostly what I feel. But I think for some people, there's a question like:

"I thought I was the originator of many my out-of-the-blue thoughts, and I found out that's not true. Am I actually the originator of the thoughts at the next level up?".

I think some people who have never meditated, while they admit to having thoughts just hit them randomly sometimes, they'll nonetheless feel that many of their truly out-of-the-blue thoughts were conscious choices to switch gears or pull on an interesting thread. A meditator might label the same low-level thought as "random", but a non-meditator would say "I did that". Can a meditator similarly be fooled, on a different level?

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#137

Post by mtalantikite »

Coincidentally Mingyur Rinpoche just posted a talk about this as well [1]. I think the most important thing is to find a lineage to practice under, with texts that can support that practice. As much as people want to divorce it from it's historical context, meditation is part of a spiritual practice and communities of people have ways of teaching it in particular ways for a reason. No one should just go sit with zero context and no support.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VzeYD2VY5o

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#138

Post by mbg721 »

cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

Imo, recognizing that there are some uncontrollable thoughts is part of the general trend of acknowledging the close connection of mental health to physical health. The existence of "lizard" characteristics to the brain doesn't invalidate free will, but they're so rarely pointed out that it's useful to notice them.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#139

Post by argentinian »

julienb_sea wrote: post #128
cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

We don't exhibit complete control over our thoughts, that is provably impossible and anecdotally obvious when reflecting on errant thoughts we have experienced. Free will is about behavior, not thoughts. Our free will is demonstrated by our ability to consciously choose whether and how to act when presented with thoughts and emotions.

Ha, it's like Hume said. If your actions and thoughts depend on past events and biological and environmental stimulus, they are not free, they are conditioned, they are a reaction to past experience. And the alternative would be random actions, and random is not free, it's random.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#140

Post by argentinian »

srcreigh wrote: post #118
cromd wrote: post #107

For me, meditation started a fundamental shift in how I think about free will, and oddly nobody I've mentioned it to in real life has felt this. I used to feel very in-control of my own mind, but after intentionally sitting and monitoring for thoughts, labeling those thoughts, etc, I became sensitive to how thoughts can really come out of nowhere. You can't predict what you will think next. That strikes a little deep…

In my opinion, we both have free will and our thoughts don't always come from us. Some things we see with our eyes are from our own movements, others are from externalities. I believe thoughts are the same but neither contradicts free will.

How do you define that "us", the self?
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