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Not everyone should meditate

joshcsimmons.com

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Re: Not everyone should meditate

#81

Post by aidenn0 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #41
cardanome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly but I find meditation really "painful". I am more of the anxious side of things and being super focused on myself is very stressful. Sure I feel calmer afterwards but the process feels like a cold shower in winter. The only times I found meditation enjoyable is in a group setting. Normally I am quite introverted and prefer to do most activities alone but here it is reversed.

"and being super focused on myself is very stressful." Can you explain, what exactly is stressful to you, by focusing on yourself? Or is it just that you feel you want to move but you also want to be still?

Not meditation related, but a lot of people with ADHD have some serious shame issues, and taking meds that treat the ADHD can put them in a state where they can no longer easily distract themselves from the fact that they hate themselves, which is ... not a great feeling.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#82

Post by zozbot234 »

subpixel wrote: post #79
avindroth wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common enough effect that it should be noted. Many spiritual people end up being detached from the world, for better or worse.

Detachment is a tenet of Buddhism, not an effect of meditation.

Certainly not in the sense of "overlooking anything else in your life". Moral living is a key component of successful dharmic/meditative practice according to Buddhist and other teachings.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#83

Post by saulpw »

subpixel wrote: post #79
avindroth wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common enough effect that it should be noted. Many spiritual people end up being detached from the world, for better or worse.

Detachment is a tenet of Buddhism, not an effect of meditation.

Note that the tenet of Buddhism is non-attachment, not detachment. They are different.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#84

Post by ivansavz »

reddit_clone wrote: post #12

People who suffer from severe ADHD, meditation is nearly impossible.

I know what you mean. I have tried to pick up meditation at least a dozen times, and I can never get the thoughts to stop even for a minute. Every morning I sit and try observe my thoughts, it just feels like I'm going through the TODO list for the day, with random interrupts of things that bother me or that I should worry about.

So I used to think meditation is impossible for me until I started doing the "morning pages" exercise recommended in the book The Artists's way:

> Morning Pages are three pages of longhand, stream of consciousness writing, done first thing in the morning. There is no wrong way to do Morning Pages–they are not high art. They are not even “writing.” They are about anything and everything that crosses your mind– and they are for your eyes only. Morning Pages provoke, clarify, comfort, cajole, prioritize and synchronize the day at hand. Do not over-think Morning Pages: just put three pages of anything on the page...and then do three more pages tomorrow. via https://juliacameronlive.com/basic-tools/morning-pages/

After doing this 3 pages (on letter paper folded in two 5.5"x8.5") of writing down all my worries, thoughts, plans, and other random thoughts that come to my mind right after I wake up, I have been able to sit for 15 mins and experience moments of "mental silence." I'm not levitating or achieving some deep insights (probably not possible with 15 mins), but definitely a good way to start the day.

Since I had tried to meditate so many times before and failed every time, I found the morning pages helped a lot, and I would recommend to anyone try this out. Then again, my ADHD is more moderate than severe, so the same approach might not work for everyone.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#85

Post by zozbot234 »

reddit_clone wrote: post #12

People who suffer from severe ADHD, meditation is nearly impossible.

Concentration meditation (samadhi) might help. The whole idea is that you should learn to nonchalantly bring your awareness back to the focus of your meditation whenever you get distracted by some other fleeting thought. Distraction will happen, whether or not you have ADHD - but it should also not matter. You're also not simply relying on willpower or higher executive function, which would of course be very stressful and tiring for those affected; you're learning to focus your attention via an entirely different path.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#86

Post by lousyd »

The argument here seems to be that LSD can be dangerous, meditation is kind of like LSD, and therefore meditation can be dangerous.

It does seem like a possibility, but you'd think if someone were going to write about it they'd try to present evidence of some sort to support the point.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#87

Post by kranke155 »

The author might be more correct than he imagines. I suffer from bipolar disorder, which was “activated” during a heavy meditation period 5 years ago or so.

My therapist now advises me to stay away from it. She says that meditation is a form of “self hypnosis” and that I should stay away from daily practice, which is what I had previously.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#88

Post by vitro »

skilled wrote: post #20

This is a great perspective. I know what the author means with it, too. I spent 5 years in daily meditation practice (twice a day for 20 minutes) and it completely altered my state of mind. I was a naturally introverted person when I started, though I believe that meditation really stepped it up a notch for me. The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends y…

As a beginner, in zen, for example, it is advised against meditating alone as your practice may just turn to fortifying your own beliefs, views and opinions.

That's why there is a sangha - a group of fellow meditators who will tell you if you start drifting too much away and will advice you.

Don't practice alone. At least not in the beginning.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#89

Post by kranner »

JacobThreeThree wrote: post #54
iLoveOncall wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The strange thing about meditation and the idea of living in the present is that it completely transcends your life experience. It is not in human nature to fight with the inner workings of your own psychology, and for me - meditation really amplified all that I had been trough or was going through at the time. I really don't understand why the world just accepts that meditation as a whole is not just another versi…

I'm in the same boat as you. I think there's a lot we don't know about human psychology, the brain and self-help practices, but I haven't seen convincing evidence that meditation works. This 2017 publication sums it up nicely: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1745691617709589

The paper you've linked to (https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1177/1745691617709589) points out methodological flaws in meditation-related research, ambiguities in the meaning of "mindfulness" etc.; it doesn't set out to prove that meditation doesn't 'work' (in the sense that it causes no effects).

In fact the paper acknowledges instances of meditation-induced adverse effects; if meditation didn't do anything at all, why would anyone experience even adverse effects? Clearly meditation does have effects.

Re: Not everyone should meditate

#90

Post by mettamage »

When I had a daily body scan practice, I body scanned so much that I didn't emotionally recognize myself in the mirror. Only rationally did I know that it was me. But it felt like I was looking at a strange man.

I stopped my daily practice after that. Unfortunately, most benefits also went away. Fortunately, a few of them stayed and for that I'm grateful :)

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