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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

reuters.com

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#521

Post by ceras »

electriclizard wrote: post #324
jahewson wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think such an office environment leads to lower productivity. I too present no evidence for this claim. Personally I think I’m right! We should do it my way.

It leads to me wanting to kill myself more often and needing to invest more time in therapy, commutes, and recovery. And over half the engineers I've spoken with, who drop their facade, feel the same. Being stuck in a chair all day with people watching you is not a good life. Being forced to adhere to arbitrary social convention instead of speaking sincerely and expressing yourself is not a good life. Choosing to lay…

Some people feel exactly the opposite and are happier working in an office than remotely - even if they believe remote work is more productive!

Iirc it's very roughly like 20-30% want full remote, 50-60% want some type of hybrid (where there's a wide spectrum of hybrid models, from rarely-in-office to usually-in-office), and 10-20% prefer always or almost-always in office.

The ideal situation IMO is to have all options available: some teams are remote, some teams are in-office. The proportion over time should hopefully work out such that everyone can get what they want.

Personally, I'm happier and healthier with a hybrid model (where people work in office the same days) than full remote. And like you, I also know I'm not alone because of people I know who are very unhappy right now due to forced remote during COVID. I sincerely hope we soon enter a future where everyone has options that best suit them.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#522

Post by tick_tock_tick »

Wiseacre wrote: post #321
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "individual preference" has a massive effect on the team just one remote person is a massive drain on efficiency. You can't frame it as "individual" when work is an inherently collaborative process.

Implying companies that embrace remote work are less collaborative?

Yes, I feel confident saying by and large they are. I've noticed a massive drop of collaboration with our switch to remote during this time. Sure there will be exceptions, mostly from in person companies being very bad about it, but there are fundamental limits with remote that don't exist in person for collaboration.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#523

Post by [deleted] »

vl wrote: post #303
skybrian wrote: post #201

I've worked at a startup where everyone being there was essential in how we worked. (We were all pair programming.) It was great. It beats code reviews any day. I learned a lot. But when I was at Google, we would schedule VC meetings with people in a different part of campus just to avoid the walk. Also, I worked on teams that had people worked out in many offices, mostly not Mountain View. I was surrounded by Google…

The irony, of course, that working conditions at Google , of all places, are truly atrocious. For years our desks were in hallways (KIR-C, KIR-D). When I left big G, there were desks literally in staircases (KIR-D). I have no idea how they passed fire inspections.

[deleted]

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#525

Post by k4ch0w »

randomsearch wrote: post #227
icedistilled wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mandated return to work date 3 days/week minimum unless you’ve transitioned to remote This is what bugs me about the hybrid set up. If the company onboarded a lot of permanent remotes and also doesn't have people sync up the in office days, then there is no point of going into the office. It's the worst of both worlds.

Which is why hybrid doesn’t work, and back to the office will win for most companies.

I think you'll lose some talented employees if you don't allow WFH. I think it will take time to see how this plays out.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#526

Post by ryan_lane »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

If you work at Google, even if everyone is "on-site", they're not at your site, and you still need to treat them as if they're remote. Once a company reaches a certain size, and has offices in multiple locations (and timezones, and potentially multiple countries), it's necessary to treat most people as if they're remote, because effectively, they are.

Yes, your team may be fully in one office, but it's pretty rare to work in a team where 100% of your work in handled in-team. If your meetings include other teams, they're probably going to involve video conferencing, at which point, it's actually worse to use a meeting room, because it means that some people are going to have audio/video problems.

I also like working in an office, but I also understand that real life means that being remote-first is the best approach.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#527

Post by drewg123 »

prepend wrote: post #179
thebean11 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you hate it? An excuse to take a walk in Bay Area weather in the middle of the day doesn't seem that bad to me.

I hated it because it took 5-10 minutes. I’d rather use that time working, or meditating, or doing anything else of my choice than having to walk. It’s also pretty messed up when it rains, or is cold, or I have a disability or a foot in a cast. Etc etc. Having to do things not essential to a purpose is better to make them optional. If I like working, I can walk around while on the remote meeting

I worked in Plymouth, and had regular meetings with folks in Crittenden. That was a ~10 minute bike ride. When I had time, I loved biking over there and back, maybe catching a meal at a cafe far from my office. It was the perfect mid-day break.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#529

Post by JohnHaugeland »

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong.

It's better for me. That's the part that I care about.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#530

Post by Clubber »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #443
ignu wrote: post #432

I'd prefer to work an environment where I can't get interrupted synchronously by someone wanting their problem resolved that moment. Also, one thing with those in person interactions is you have no artifact of the interaction. Slack or tickets are great for documenting how decisions are made. But ultimately, I have no desire to waste an extra 5 to 10 hours of my life just driving back and forth to sit at a different…

> I'd prefer to work an environment where I can't get interrupted synchronously by someone wanting their problem resolved that moment. FWIW, I found synchronous interruptions to be more of a problem when remote. Too many people used Slack messages or video calls for everything because it was only a click away, as opposed to having to get up and walk over to someone’s desk > Also, one thing with those in person intera…

>>Also, one thing with those in person interactions is you have no artifact of the interaction. Slack or tickets are great for documenting how decisions are made.

>Forcing people to search through Slack archives works when the team is small and company is new, but it becomes useless at scale.

The OP was comparing it with someone walking over to his desk to tell him something, which if you are busy and eager to get back to what you were doing, is easy to forget. At least Slack has a record while vibrations in the air have none. He also said Slack or tickets, so you weren't even attempting to refute his actual argument.

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