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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#181
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Do you literally want to be tapped on the shoulder? Because this seems to be an extremely common figure of speech, but literally, I would not enjoy that.

Yes if me helping on several different tasks is more beneficial than isolating and working on one.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#182
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Do you literally want to be tapped on the shoulder? Because this seems to be an extremely common figure of speech, but literally, I would not enjoy that.

Right?

Like...one time I was deep in the mental flow, headphones on playing some nice orchestrated video game music. Totally entranced. Someone came up and tapped me on my shoulder and I damn near shit myself.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#183
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

>I personally prefer a company where everyone's on site. I want to be able to quickly resolve any issues in person, not over voice call or slack, and I think that an environment where someone can tap me on the shoulder when they need help leads to overall higher productivity, even if individual productivity suffers temporarily.

wut?

2 years on remote and in majority of the cases I've been able to talk to somebody within 1min.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#184
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody should have an option This is actually a major red flag if I'm an employee. There's no half way with remote work. Either everyone, including execs, works remote, or no one does. I've been in hybrid situations and it's complete hell. My suggestion is pick what works best for you, and then find a company that's committed all the way to either one. For me, there's no amount of money that doesn't start with b…

> There's no half way with remote work. I’m sorry you’ve only been in toxic environments, but you really think “we are in office t-th” is impossible?

Not impossible, but very unlikely → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30534756

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#185
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

I think such an office environment leads to lower productivity. I too present no evidence for this claim.

Personally I think I’m right! We should do it my way.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#186

I think people need to look at the multiplier FAANG companies provide salary / bonus / RSU wise. My experience is that these companies pay a significant market premium, but expect total control over your life for that margin. Everyone else I suspect is going to adapt to this work. There are people who want to work in a office. People who don't. We will need to find ways to make both successful.

> but expect total control over your life for that margin.

Data point: I work at Google and the amount of control they have exerted over my life is significantly less than any previous job I've had, including random minimum wage jobs in high school.

FAANG companies want high productivity at fairly intellectually challenging work. You get that by treating people like humans, not machines.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#188
post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Despite not making any sense, cost of living adjustments based on your location seem to be the trend that we are heading toward. If you contribute the same work, it seems that it shouldn't matter where you are located, but companies are sociopathic by nature and will reduce costs anywhere they can get away with it. This opens the door to the next step of having salaries match the lowest common denominator - if you ca…

I think the eventual outcome will be that each company will have N+1 salary scales where N is the number of locations in which they have offices. Each office location will have a pay scale for jobs that the company requires be done in that location, and there will be one pay scale for all remote workers.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#189
post #107
post #71

A few months back I was talking to a manager at [huge established software company]. He was making the case that obviously anyone who has moved away from the Bay Area should have their pay cut. He personally has not been in the office for a single day since spring 2020, but since he telecommutes from Berkeley rather than Omaha, he sees no reason to cut his own pay. Later that same day I spoke to someone who's managin…

Both engineers and managers at big tech companies can get by working 2 hours a day. And remote vs on-site doesn't affect that. This has been true since well before WFH. As for the location-based pay part, I bet none of the people who were furious about getting "adjusted" after moving out of the Bay Area ever complained about their colleagues in Bangalore working the same amount as them and making 1/5 as much.

I get a bit annoyed hearing about the 2 hour a day folks. They are probably forcing their peers or managers to take on more work than is their fair share.

I'm in management now .. as an engineer, I most certainly used to work over 8 hours a day (probably 12 hours, counting all the time I spent studying to keep up). Now, in management, the hours have actually gone up .. I now have to worry about things my team is doing 24/7, have to deal with a ton of human, infra and organizational issues, being open to meetings at any hour of the day, in addition to staying technical (my direct code contributions have gone down but my engagement with codebase and overall non-code issues has skyrocketed). I am in a large company and do AI research (so work and what I enjoy are the same, and doing cutting edge research is pretty much as hard as it gets).

Point is .. when people boast how little work they do, it makes me wonder who is the poor slob who gets to do extra. We are software professionals, and professionals need to act by a certain creed and abide by an unspoken ethic. Maybe this is my immigrant roots showing .. as I grew up, my folks always taught me to make sure I'm worth the salt I'm paid. I certainly have had periods where I was in a funk (especially early on in my career) but when a job just didn't gel, I left and tried to find something more engaging.

I certainly don't feel I can coast for a few months. Who the heck are these companies that are so relaxed. Pls don't say FANG (or MANG or whatever). People I know at the senior level work really hard too (from my peers). It could be certain areas of a large company, and it could be for some short period where people can get away with coasting. I don't think this is really sustainable with how competitive today's software landscape is.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#190
post #151
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Most big tech companies are public. Record earnings and stock prices throughout the pandemic prove more than just not crashing and burning.

There may be a confounding factor or two there.
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