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Ask HN: Do you think nuclear armageddon is plausible?

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Ask HN: Do you think nuclear armageddon is plausible?

#1
With all the talk about escalation amid the Russia-Ukraine crisis, I have been reading about this and am wondering about the odds of this occurring.

The main counterargument I see to this happening goes like: any world leader calling for nuclear armageddon will not be obeyed/will be assassinated because they cannot convince the entire chain of command to commit suicide. This seems flaky to me. One other thought I had is that perhaps that we are not capable of nuclear armageddon, because this has not been tested end-to-end, although ICBMs and nukes have been tested quite extensively.

What does HN think? Could it happen? And why do we assume that the tech is sufficiently advanced to e.g. take out every major city at the push of a button?

Re: Ask HN: Do you think nuclear armageddon is plausible?

#5
Reasoning about nuclear armageddon is hard because it's so singular. Traditional risk/benefit assessments don't really work when the outcome is so catastrophic that its utility goes to (negative) infinity. But I'd argue that this makes armageddon less plausible, because our psychological judgement of MAD is fundamentally different from normal risk assessment, and probably more cautious.

A useful analogy is individual risk. Consider a doctor giving a new treatment to a sick patient. It has some uncertainty, some risk including death and some potential gain including being healed. But it's possible to reason about the tradeoff and learn to better estimate this over time.

However, to a single patient, while there are both risk and potential benefit, the realized outcome is absolute: Either he lives or he dies. The mental model is very different from the doctors' because both scenarios are extremely charged.

In nuclear war, you are always the patient who either lives completely or dies completely. I guess that makes everyone humble. Or at least, it should.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think nuclear armageddon is plausible?

#8
It's tough to evaluate the chances that soldiers down the chain of command would violate orders to deploy nuclear weapons, because the military believes that it must look like it's fully committed to launching nukes if ordered to. The theory is that if the other side believes that there's any chance you _won't_ launch nukes, then they might be able to exploit that and get off a strike without a response. The US military is (or rather, was during the Cold War) so committed to this idea that soldiers that questioned whether or not they could even question the order were discharged, as in the case of Harold Hering, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Hering

Re: Ask HN: Do you think nuclear armageddon is plausible?

#9
post #4

Don't think it's plausible, otherwise it would already have happened. I mean, if country X really wants to pull that card they could have already done so without having to tell the entire world of their invasion intentions.

We've had nuclear weapons for less than 100 years which is nothing in history. Based on that the Roman Empire never should have fallen. If it made it 100 years, why not 150000 instead of 400ish?
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