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No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

en.interfax.com.ua

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Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#91

Post by dragonwriter »

TMWNN wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/about.html looks pretty Ukranian to me?

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

> yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

Ukraine's PR is much better than CIA/MI6’s own PR.

OTOH, I bet they and other Western intelligence service are feeding Ukraine Intel that is instrumental in both the material (compared to expectations) and PR success that Ukraine is having.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#92

Post by qazpot »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

The amplification of this regional conflict by social media into a global conflict will backfire and can start a nuclear world war.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#93

Post by oliwarner »

qazpot wrote: post #92
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

The amplification of this regional conflict by social media into a global conflict will backfire and can start a nuclear world war.

Allowing Russia to do whatever the hell it likes because we're too afraid of MAD will be what kills the West. He'll push against a NATO member soon enough. If we can't stand up for them, he won't stop. And even non-military, these punitive sanctions drive us all closer to midnight, as we plunge the citizens of Russia into a deep economic depression.

Short of a friendly and broadly supported coup or a complete ideological u-turn from Putin, there is no way forward here that doesn't risk everything. Trying to ignore it seems the least helpful.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#94

Post by VictorPath »

acdha wrote: post #69
VictorPath wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. In another forum, someone said to watch for the coming "let's roll" vignettes. Of course they were right, the US corporate press seems to be looking for narratives of heroic Ukrainian resistance, whatever the evidence - the defiant Snake Island defenders (who there later emerged video of them surrender…

> Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. Yes, who was? (Hint: not the CIA) You’re talking about Victoria Nuland, who was assistant Secretary of State at the time. She visited the protests at the time her boss was decrying the treatment of protesters and openly voiced support for democracy as opposed to how Yanukovich’s government was treati…

> the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda

It's not a claim, there's video of her doing it. So "Russian propaganda" means a video of a US assistant of secretary of state handing out cookies in the Maidan Square where the Azov battalion etc. were overthrowing the elected Ukrainian government.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#95

Post by pjc50 »

kergonath wrote: post #31
sva_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've seen. I'm a bit twisted about this. In school, as a German, we were told that the Nazis only reported their wins, not their losses, and how this was such a terrible thing to do (I'm not saying Ukrainians are like Nazis of course.)

I don’t know about you, but the point the teachers made when I was in school in France was more that they were censuring things like soldiers letters to their relatives and journal articles, which is bad, rather than officials emphasising victories without mentioning defeats, which is not ideal but understandable when morale plays such an important role.

> censoring things like soldiers letters to their relatives and journal articles

Literally every belligerent in WW2 did that?

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#96

Post by koonsolo »

fuoqi wrote: post #88
koonsolo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero sympathy for the post-2014 Ukrainian regime Why? 72% of votes went to Zelenskyy in the last election. What is your problem with that?

Sure, now compare his election promises which got him those 72% with his actions. He did a literal 180 on his promises and made a bunch of clearly unconstitutional moves with zero critique from the West.

Why should the west critique him? Isn't it up the the Ukrainians to critique? So far I see very little of that.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#97

Post by thejackgoode »

pjmlp wrote: post #63
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

Unfortunely there are only so much that a country can take with an endless amount of tanks driving into it.

We have a big country, they have 0/10 logistics. Rations and fuel of invading forces were reportedly at best for three days at invasion time.

Supply chains are being disrupted due to civilian resistance and lack of air dominance. It's not only social media, it's a total war situation, unanticipated by invader.

Let's see how "endless" it will look in a week or two.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#98

Post by acdha »

VictorPath wrote: post #94
acdha wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help. Yes, who was? (Hint: not the CIA) You’re talking about Victoria Nuland, who was assistant Secretary of State at the time. She visited the protests at the time her boss was decrying the treatment of protesters and openly voiced support for democracy as opposed to how Yanukovich’s government was treati…

> the cookies claim is a tell that you spend a lot of time consuming Russian propaganda It's not a claim, there's video of her doing it. So "Russian propaganda" means a video of a US assistant of secretary of state handing out cookies in the Maidan Square where the Azov battalion etc. were overthrowing the elected Ukrainian government.

> It's not a claim, there's video of her doing it.

This is what I was referring to earlier: she gave out food, as was reported at the time, but the Russian sources you appear to be repeating LOVE to describe it as cookies for some reason and have continued doing so for years. Nobody else does that because it's an absurd thing to be upset about in any case: a U.S. State department official tours a rally in support of pro-democracy demonstrators is hardly unexpected and if it was something shameful as implied they wouldn't have done it in front of a ton of reporters. (… and, if you recall we were talking about a CIA conspiracy theory when they rarely do things literally in the public square using real names)

Similarly, it's pretty telling that you try to link this to the Azov battalion rather than the groups which actually lead the protests and you continue to characterize it using the terms which the Russian state media favor rather than how most independent observers do.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#99

Post by kergonath »

pjc50 wrote: post #95
kergonath wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about you, but the point the teachers made when I was in school in France was more that they were censuring things like soldiers letters to their relatives and journal articles, which is bad, rather than officials emphasising victories without mentioning defeats, which is not ideal but understandable when morale plays such an important role.

> censoring things like soldiers letters to their relatives and journal articles Literally every belligerent in WW2 did that?

Well, yes. That’s pretty much the point.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#100

Post by Mo3 »

nosianu wrote: post #89
Mo3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. I have a dedicated Nextcloud just to store and maintain order in my postal communication. I‘ve moved to the Netherlands in recent days though and the difference is very notable.

> I doubt you have ever penetrated deep enough into the favorite German pastime. You don't know me. Many years ago, early nineties, I worked in the kitchen of a New Jersey summer camp for over two months through a student exchange program. At one point I decided to show them what "German" and "order" really means. I cleaned up the large pantry. Before, it was what you expect when you hear the term. A somewhat dark pl…

Your passport is ready for pickup.

Just be prepared to spend 5 hours for the paperwork

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