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No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

en.interfax.com.ua

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Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#41

Post by emteycz »

yossarian1408 wrote: post #10
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

It's not their propaganda operation, it's ours.

You're flattering yourself too much. Ukrainians had the last 8 years to train and practice. They're one of the best now. Others will be coming to ask them for help, not the other way around.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#42

Post by ppg677 »

TMWNN wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/about.html looks pretty Ukranian to me?

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

You vastly overestimate the competence of the CIA.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#43

Post by matwood »

yossarian1408 wrote: post #10
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

It's not their propaganda operation, it's ours.

It's a combination. The US releasing intelligence early on as it came out cut the knees out of the Russian disinformation campaign. So much so, I suspect it may become the new doctrine. Ukraine, and Zelensky in particular, have also taken full advantage of social media.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#44

Post by fmajid »

TMWNN wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/about.html looks pretty Ukranian to me?

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

Your misplaced faith in the competence of the CIA is almost adorable. Small countries like Israel or Ukraine actually have to have competent intelligence services because their survival depends on it.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#45

Post by nkozyra »

thejackgoode wrote: post #25
sva_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've seen. I'm a bit twisted about this. In school, as a German, we were told that the Nazis only reported their wins, not their losses, and how this was such a terrible thing to do (I'm not saying Ukrainians are like Nazis of course.)

Everybody does this during war, would you expect the opposite? Would you yourself voluntarily share news of your own country's losses during war?

It's often claimed that a loosening of media restrictions post-Korean war contributed to the domestic lack of support for the Vietnam War.

But there are a lot of ways to shape a narrative in 2022 that involve amplification instead of censorship.

https://www.rewire.org/vietnam-war-media-shapes-public-opini...

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#46

Post by drran »

sva_ wrote: post #21
pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

> Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've seen. I'm a bit twisted about this. In school, as a German, we were told that the Nazis only reported their wins, not their losses, and how this was such a terrible thing to do (I'm not saying Ukrainians are like Nazis of course.)

Ukraine reports losses only traditionally, because Ukrainians worry about their relatives, but losses are hard to count in real time. Dead soldiers are declared as missing until remains are found. Dead civilians are not reported by invaders at all. For example, we lost one MiG-29 just a few hours ago[0]. This morning report[1] is quite correct. Here is information[2] about death of Oleksandr Oksanchenko, one of the best pilots. And so on.

When dozens, if not hundreds, of soldiers and civilians die every hour, it's hard to track all of them. Usually, most information about losses will be available after the end of an intensive firefight, when officers will have time to fill reports. Some information about shootings is reported by civilians, but it is hard to verify it.

[0]: https://www.facebook.com/MinistryofDefence.UA/posts/26756335...

[1]: https://www.facebook.com/MinistryofDefence.UA/posts/26756335...

[2]: https://www.facebook.com/MinistryofDefence.UA/posts/26701995...

> remnants

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#47

Post by VictorPath »

acdha wrote: post #23
TMWNN wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yossarian1408 means that CIA/MI6 are almost certainly running Ukraine's PR.

Which is a pretty bold claim, completely unsupported by evidence. The Ukraine has a ton of highly-proficient very online people, the idea that they need shadowy outside help seems like an attack more than a serious claim.

Who was handing out cookies in Maidan Square during the Euromaidan? Just the tip of the iceberg of the outside help.

In another forum, someone said to watch for the coming "let's roll" vignettes. Of course they were right, the US corporate press seems to be looking for narratives of heroic Ukrainian resistance, whatever the evidence - the defiant Snake Island defenders (who there later emerged video of them surrendering and Ukrainian officials saying they may still be alive), the Ghost of Kyiv fighter ace (who does seem like an actual ghost) and on and on. Of course it's difficult to verify the facts of these heroic narratives spun from rumor and propaganda during the fog of war, where the first casualty is the truth.

There are also many reports from almost the first day about how the Russian military is on its last legs and so forth, which sounds absurd. There may be one or two small there's there, but from US corporate media reports you'd think they were on the verge of defeat. Kind of like how the NLF were said to be on their last legs in 1968, prior to the Tet Offensive.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#48

Post by emteycz »

ceejayoz wrote: post #32
watwut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wont be reading this. Russia is informationally closed and now it became crime to spread "disinformation about war". This would likely fall in that category (regardless of whether true or not). Also, Russian soldiers are dying too. It is fair to guess they are more likely to die then become POW.

North Koreans manage to get DVDs of Marvel movies. The Russians will manage - they’ve still got actual access to the Internet.

You're assuming they're going to be trying, but they don't know they should be "managing" something.

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#49

Post by justinclift »

hef19898 wrote: post #19
tyropita wrote: post #2

Just imagine regular Ukrainian folks commuting to work in their personal tanks. What a time to be alive!

Well, they are propably not allowed to keep them, just sell them for tax free revenue.

"I'm hanging onto it for the next time they try this shit..." :)

Re: No need to declare captured Russian tanks, other equipment of invaders as income

#50

Post by ck2 »

pjc50 wrote: post #9

The Ukranian social media propaganda operation is just incredible, and they should keep at it because I think it's been a big part of the massive popular support in the West causing rapid government and NGO response to the invasion. Conversely they've been pretty effective at stopping information about their own disposition of forces being posted to social media, or at least it's not being retweeted anywhere I've see…

It's all fun and games until Putin totally rages and dials it up to 11 without even a "no fly zone" being offered by the rest of the world. They have almost the military power of the US and look at the total decimation we did to Iraq.

I mean they are already bombing civilian areas so thousands are dying, just not being reported to keep moral up.

Putin will threaten maybe nukes in response but there has to be a no-fly zone over Ukraine or they are going to be destroyed by end of March.

Putin doesn't have to occupy Ukraine, he just has to destroy it, that's way easier. It will take at least a decade to rebuild if not multiple.

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