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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#941

Post by CRConrad »

antocv wrote: post #240
Svoka wrote: post #19

[flagged]

Now, we are sitting in our comfortable homes still and this is for us another thought-challenge about horrible events far away. I condemn all wars, but as nerds continue with the thinking and analyzing, this is not meant to defend any side and especially not to justify any war. Now then, what you said. Do you also hold that against all the Germans when they started both World War 1, and World War 2? They did nothing.…

> Do you also hold that against all the Germans when they started both World War 1,

You are misinformed: They didn't.

> and World War 2?

Germany was collectivel de-Nazified after that, so yes: That obviously was held against all Germans at the time.

> Would you let Russians also get away with it, if they say they are sorry and have changed?

So, no. Why should they get away with it so easily when the Germans didn't?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#942

Post by CRConrad »

nickpp wrote: post #82
Svoka wrote: post #19

[flagged]

I am afraid it's worse than that. Western oil and gas buyers paid for death and destruction of Ukraine. That means all of us. Our heating and gas money financed Russian military. This is why it's so important right now to help Ukraine and hinder Putin.

> This is why it's so important right now to help Ukraine and hinder Putin.

Well, it's yet another reason why it's so important right now to help Ukraine and hinder Putin. Seems a bit shallow to put self-redemption as the first (or even worse, only) one.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#943

Post by seba_dos1 »

fmcoder wrote: post #869
seba_dos1 wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending effort on convincing their family and friends that the state propaganda is not to be trusted is probably the best middle-term investment a Russian can make right now.

Have tried it with my parents, unfortunately, they eat all this crap from Putin's TV. People who are brainwashed can't really be talked into reason. Politics start and end wars, but a person can break ties with his family irreversible because of those in-family political discussions.

Note that convincing them that they're wrong is less important and much harder to do than convincing them that new things they may see in state media may be wrong. It's about instilling doubt, not about arguing with your parents about politics. The propaganda is most likely going to go into scary territories now, so any doubt will be helpful.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#944

Post by CRConrad »

namecheapTA wrote: post #104
randomsearch wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whataboutism and it is so tired. A good propaganda tactic though, and the Russians are using it as an attack vector. Westerners seem really vulnerable to this form of propaganda, possibly due to the success of previous information warfare led by Russia. Bringing up some other terrible thing for comparison does not change in any way whatsoever the severity of what is happening in Ukraine. Whataboutism propagan…

Using a tool to help someone see that their thoughts or words are foolish isn't a bad thing. People are getting very emotional about this entire situation, which is understandable. But then they are getting on their internet soap boxes and saying things that don't make any real sense and they don't really believe. I was simply trying to make OP realize that his extremely harsh comments are just platitudes, by remindi…

> Using a tool to help someone see that their thoughts or words are foolish isn't a bad thing.

So what tool can we use to make you see that your whataboutism propaganda is shit? So far you haven't seemed able to get that, so any tips would be welcomed.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#946

Post by CRConrad »

sudosysgen wrote: post #41
randomsearch wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whataboutism and it is so tired. A good propaganda tactic though, and the Russians are using it as an attack vector. Westerners seem really vulnerable to this form of propaganda, possibly due to the success of previous information warfare led by Russia. Bringing up some other terrible thing for comparison does not change in any way whatsoever the severity of what is happening in Ukraine. Whataboutism propagan…

This is not whataboutism and it is so tired. It's about the fact that this isn't about the human suffering caused by Russia, it's a conflict between major power - case in point, all of the previous instances of similar behaviour from multiple countries that went unpunished. When evidence fly in the face of a narrative, whataboutism isn't a defense. Whataboutism would be if they said it's fine for Putin to commit atro…

> Whataboutism would be if they said it's fine for Putin to commit atrocities in Ukraine because the US commits atrocities in various countries. That's not what was pointed out. It was pointed out that the narrative doesn't follow past precedent.

That's just a somewhat deniable -- i.e. more chickenshit -- way of saying the exact same thing.

Ergo: Yes, it's whataboutism.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#947

Post by swat535 »

jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

You clearly have no idea what it's like to live under a dictatorship.

Well I do sir, I lived under the Islamic Republic of Iran for half my life.

If you think people can just "rise up", protest and overthrow the government, then you are clueless. Dictators will not hesitate to fire live rounds at their own people, they will torture and imprison everyone, cut all communication from outside and spew propaganda 24/7 to keep people in the dark.

Further, you don't even need to look far in history to see what happens if people do indeed "rise up", it happened in Syria [0] with the Arab spring and the civil war has been going on for over a decade now. It has basically turned the country into dust and it has been made inhabitable, if you don't believe me checkout "For Sama" [1]

So no, I don't blame the ordinary Russian civilians. My prayers go out to the people of Ukraine AND Russia right now.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9617456/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#948

Post by shrimp_emoji »

nofuture1 wrote: post #627
sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

Apologies for using a throwaway account. It is true that the idea of suffering have been engraved into the Russian culture, for centuries. It is the ever-present fear of what could happen next, based on what has happened in the past. The fear of things getting even worse, despite everything being bad already. The longing for a chance to have even a short period of normal life, before everything inevitably falls apart…

https://youtu.be/z6vsFD_W-yA

<3

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#949

Post by JamesAdir »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #368
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

US has been blowing up afghan villagers (and kids/babies) for last 20 years. You only noticed this now?? Have you been living inside a watermelon.

And the US stated the Taliban in order to drag Russia to a war in Afghanistan even before that. There is a 7 years war going on in Yemen, and it I've hardly seen any company discuss that. It's always about something else than the actual war, most of the times it's about money and energy.

[1] https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/yemen-crisis

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#950

Post by kragen »

ur-whale wrote: post #291
kragen wrote: post #2

You're absolutely right. Worth mentioning that even though Binance was founded by a Chinese guy and is banned in the US, they're saying they'll cooperate with sanctions. So if your savings are in Binance, maybe move them to a wallet where you hold the keys, not some server overseas.

> maybe move them to a wallet where you hold the keys Something you should be doing anyways by default, war or no war. Self-custody is one of the pillar of what makes crypto interesting. Exchanges, as the name implies is a place where you move your crypto temporarily to perform an exchange. Once that is done, you get your funds out. If you leave your crypto (or fiat for that matter) on an exchange, what happens next…

I agree, but this is a moment when it's especially important.
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