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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#72A bit off topic but, separate from Indian culture, the United States has a hidden caste system too that flows from antiquity and is given texture through American slavery. If your family was a slave or you look like a slave you are, unconscious in the minds of most, systemically bottom caste here. Sorry if it is an unsatisfying critique of America but its obvious. Go look at the wealth data, look who is thriving and…
This is waaaay off topic. Carry down that line of thought and you might fall into all sorts of nonsense. Note things like Pope Gregory (n?) saw a pair of slaves in a market in Rome in the n00s. These two were picked up from somewhere that would eventually become part of England/GB. He was told they were Angles. The story goes he quipped that they were "surely Angels" due to their physique and long blonde hair. Part o…
Yes off topic, and I edited my comment to reflect this. American slavery is a distinct type of slavery because of the geography and people involved. That is all I was saying.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#73A bit off topic but, separate from Indian culture, the United States has a hidden caste system too that flows from antiquity and is given texture through American slavery. If your family was a slave or you look like a slave you are, unconscious in the minds of most, systemically bottom caste here. Sorry if it is an unsatisfying critique of America but its obvious. Go look at the wealth data, look who is thriving and…
[deleted]
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its possible some of it is true, I know well educated brahmin acquaintances who have outright said they are superior. I look like a brahmin person and they tend to let their guard down around me, But no one has ever asked me about my caste (Maybe because they assume my caste based on how I look). At the same time there are lots frivolous lawsuits from the groups mentioned in this article so its hard to say.
> I look like a brahmin person > they assume my caste based on how I look I'm curious in this comment, are you dressing up a certain way that is typical of brahmin, or are there some other characteristics that makes you look brahmin?
Due to historical endogamy of Indian castes, there are very often phenotypes that are associated with relative position in the caste hierarchy. This is highly regional, and far from exact, but leads to examples like the GP gave.
These patterns are often used by people as a shorthand for categorizing another's relative caste and often as the basis for discrimination.
At a very broad generalization, upper caste individuals tend to skew more toward more west asian, and less regional/indigenous phenotypes.
The trait most strongly associated with higher caste is fairer complexion, which is the basis of great deal of South Asian discrimination, and has ancient roots reaching back millennia, though it was reinforced by colonial powers. There are many exceptions to this though, and a lot of stories about people being misidentified as one caste it the other on the basis of complexion.
People pay close attention to this because phenotypes are a type of currency, especially in matters related to marriage and community identification, and also power relationships.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#75The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…
How would you enforce this? In the US this is completely illegal.
In addition, you would have to ask extremely invasive questions of everyone. So is your proposal that you require that your company ask for the detailed ethnicity of everyone? What happens when people refuse, do you just not allow them to interview or manage?
What about people who were born in the US, do you assume that if they are of Japanese descent they can't interview someone of Chinese descent?
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#76The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…
I'm a Pakistani American and I've worked well with many Indians. This is overcompensating.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate a bit more on Greeks and Turks? I happen to be Greek and have worked with 2 Turkish colleagues without any issues. On top of that, during my many travels across Europe, Turks (along with other Balkan nationalities) are by far the most welcoming people I meet once they learn that I come from Greece and I befriended a few of them. Do you have any different experiences to share?
I’m under the impression some people are still upset over Cyprus. Edit: corrected cypress misspelling. Thanks repliers!
I mean sure, TJ Rodgers was a controversial guy but he hasn't been involved since the Infineon acquisition.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#78The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…
I'm sorry, but can you please elaborate a bit more on Greeks and Turks? I happen to be Greek and have worked with 2 Turkish colleagues without any issues. On top of that, during my many travels across Europe, Turks (along with other Balkan nationalities) are by far the most welcoming people I meet once they learn that I come from Greece and I befriended a few of them. Do you have any different experiences to share?
There still seem to be some deep-seated resentments from some Greeks towards Turks due to the Greek genocide and exodus a hundred years ago. Turks on the other hand have never heard about that (it's illegal to teach in Turkey), so they are pretty chill. There is some bitterness due to the more recent (and still unresolved) conflict regarding Cyprus.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#79The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…
There are multiple distinct ethnic / cultural / religious groups in Bosnia. Serbians (from Serbia or Kosovo) tend to get along well with Bosnian Serbs, but there can be conflicts on occasion with Bosnian Croats and Bosniaks (Muslims).
As a practical matter within US companies it's not feasible to assign team members based on avoiding those potential conflicts. Nor can we afford to hire independent observers. I can't imagine trying to justify that additional headcount request to Finance and HR, they would laugh me out of the room! Instead employees are expected to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings and if they can't do so then manage them out.
Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system
#80In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…
I saw the same at a prominent financial services firm. 50 - 60 Indians in the same dept from the same region. A big number.
I even asked a senior manager if I needed to be Indian to excel at the company. He said the very fact I asked that question is a problem, whether or not it is true.