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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#811

Post by saiya-jin »

pishpash wrote: post #648
saiya-jin wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Saddam did that in 80s, US was still cooperating with him due to Iran/Iraq war (remember that Saddam-Rumsfeld photo? It wasn't staged or some freak coincidence but regular business/military talks and pats on the back). Those attacks didn't stop the cooperation. I don't think anybody powerful really cared about those poor civilians, it was just pretext but in this case a real one. Anyway back to the topic - we e…

I mean sure, but then you'd understand why eastward expansion of a military alliance could be construed as an existential threat, too. There's just a lot of unnecessary hypocrisy all around. It should also be said that, who is a bully depends on whose interests one happens to align with. Maybe transatlantic interests are always magically aligned forever but somehow I doubt it. One should wonder why or how that comes…

Sorry but no. I hate when people, ie when talking truth and outright lie, try to drag discussion into 'its somewhere in between', or 'consider the side of this murderer, he has needs and insecurities too'.

Who gives a f*k what some murderous dictator wants or not. That's undefendable position these days. He had done enough evil in this world in past 20 years and cost lives of millions civilians including many children that he can shake hands with Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Anything Russian is a big no-go. I guess they really have to build their tanks from wood now, since they failed with Armata tanks so badly (but for Russia predictably).

Do you also point out some traumatic events from Hitler's childhood as some form of excuse for his actions? He was also just trying to expand his country to what he seemed as more ideal setup and give it better future. This abhorable little man stands against everything western democracies value very dearly.

He managed to do 1 thing almost perfectly though - unify whole Europe and in fact most of the world in a way that leaders were failing for decades. Its just that its against him and his crooks and murderers. Hopefully the momentum will remain for long. As they say, the society is defined by common enemy, and well he is the best there could be right now. He would be comical if his actions were not killing hundreds of people every single day right now.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#812

Post by sudosysgen »

roca wrote: post #698
sudosysgen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US replaced the governments of multiple countries with its puppets, see Afghanistan. Try to tell me with a straight face that the previous Afghan government was democratic and represented the will of the Afghan people. You cannot. Iraq's democracy is about as successful as Russia's, that is, not at all. The US installed a dictatorship in South Korea, and overthrew or contributed in the overthrow of many more.

The US-supported Afghan government wasn't worse than the governments before or after it. South Korea's an interesting example. It was a dictatorship, now it's a thriving democracy. Ditto for Japan, Taiwan, West Germany. Sometimes things turn out alright.

I still don't see how that's an excuse for killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, though.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#813

Post by teatree »

staskus wrote: post #572
hnov wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe as a person living in the Baltics you need to endure the cold and not fund the Russian war machine through natural gas. An unfortunate reality really

I agree with the notion of not relying on Russian gas. We've built liquefied natural gas terminal ( https://enmin.lrv.lt/en/strategic-projects/gas-sector/liquef... ) 7 years ago as Russia has been using gas as a political weapon against us constantly. We will endure what we need to endure to help Ukraine and we hope that ordinary Russians will do the same.

Are Baltic countries still importing natural gas from Russia or has is completely stopped?

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#814

Post by GekkePrutser »

tuukkah wrote: post #674
_abox wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He basically aims to reinstate the Soviet Union "glory" days so reinstating the iron curtain isn't a big stretch... I still hope this can be settled. If Ukraine gives up the areas that were basically constant civil war anyway... Continued escalation is to nobody's benefit. I don't think the Russian population wants this war either. PS for what it's worth I also was really opposed to my own country helping the US to i…

It was never a civil war; from the beginning, it was a Russian invasion implemented partially with some locals as a proxy.

True, I was following the official wording because even us in the west didn't want to call that an invasion for fear of inciting Putin. Of course that ship has sailed so we can now call it what it is.

But basically the status quo is that these areas would be no good for Ukraine anymore because they're shot to crap and full or armed rebels (or green men). It's not like it's actually useful territory for building housing or running commercial activities etc. It's also pretty clear Russia would keep playing that game even if they retreat.

I would assume they'd gladly give up this territory (and Crimea) at this point for the war to stop. And then go full NATO or at least EU for future protection. I don't think Russia will ever give up the war without some kind of compromise because they would lose face.

Either way, I hope a consensus will be reached soon because this BS war is killing real people.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#815

Post by rad_gruchalski »

OJFord wrote: post #725
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 11 months. Wow.

My point is (surely obviously? I do know the war happened!) not that it worked out greatly, just that yes, they did think they might talk Hitler down. If you really get into it, there's an argument that it bought valuable time; that maybe it was only ever supposed to be a delay, but I think that might be giving too much credit - a positive sure, just perhaps not the intention: Chamberlain returned to London declaring…

> If you really get into it, there's an argument that it bought valuable time;

To whom? To Hitler? Because the Allies didn’t prepare for what was coming.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#816

Post by m_fayer »

dimator wrote: post #338
teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

I watched TNG in high school. I never realized how much of my worldview it helped form, until I reflected on it later on. Because of that, humanity has really disappointed me. I thought we were on track, but it's just so stark of a reality check. Despite all our progress, our greed and petty squabbling make me feel like the future that star trek pointed us towards is slipping further into the future. I'm sure now tha…

Same thing here. I rewatched it as an adult a few years ago and suddenly the idealism and professionalism and lowkey-utopianism leapt out at me, and like you I realized that these things had stayed with me since high school.

It's given me a new appreciation for how important it is for children to grow up with truly idealistic visions in their cultural surroundings. It's terrible that in these times, there's no TNG equivalent that I'm aware of.

By the way, one TNGie to another: try to hold off on that disappointment. As a species we're just starting to get the hang of rationality, the scientific mindset, and self-governance. We're babies. It'll take a long time, we just need to try not to do any irreversible damage before we get where we're going.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#817

Post by jgwil2 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #502
modernpink wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russophobia that has been pouring out is lamentable. And people don't realise this will only push the Russian people further towards Putin to re-establish their pride. And the sanctions are making this even worse. This mirrors Germany's treatment with the Treaty of Versailles leading up to WWII.

It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.

I don't think you can really call this escalation. Escalation would be responding to military force in kind. Instead, the West is is confining itself to economic sanctions and material support. I don't really see how they can do less, frankly, without risking emboldening Putin to strike at Poland or the Baltics (thus involving NATO).

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#818

Post by ausudhz »

jacquesm wrote: post #802
anonymousDan wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of land borders, a flight isn't necessary.

This underestimates the size of Russia substantially. Borders to the West are all pretty much closed. Which makes the minimum route 1000's of km with all kinds of complications along the way.

When you don't know geography and where the fight is that's what happen.

Luckily these people are not working in position of power. Aren't they right? Right? :)

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#819

Post by jacquesm »

ausudhz wrote: post #818
jacquesm wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This underestimates the size of Russia substantially. Borders to the West are all pretty much closed. Which makes the minimum route 1000's of km with all kinds of complications along the way.

When you don't know geography and where the fight is that's what happen. Luckily these people are not working in position of power. Aren't they right? Right? :)

One would hope...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#820

Post by cloverich »

drcongo wrote: post #808
qnsi wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNN finds that twice as many Russians believe it would be right for Moscow to use military force to prevent Kyiv from joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as say it would be wrong. One out of every two Russians (50%) says it would be right, while only a quarter (25%) say it would be wrong. The other quarter (25%) are unsure, according to the survey. But the poll also found that more Russians think it…

Imagine answering "don't know" to any question that starts with "would it be right to use military force", let alone those questions.

Keep also in mind their view (whether self determined or propagandized) is that joining NATO means joining a coalition that may want to attack Russia. So the actual question in their mind is somewhat similar to ours — is it right to use preemptive military action, if the alternative is a bigger war down the line? It’s not an easy question to answer.
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