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Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

reuters.com

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Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#151

Post by tomp »

Ajef wrote: post #119
pengaru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that he wanted to take over Ukraine in just a few days and was surprised by Ukraine's defence and multiple desertions in his own army. Everything I have read that isn't heavily biased anti-Russia propaganda says Russia has exercised enormous restraint so far in this invasion. There's no reason I see to believe Putin's been surprised by Ukraine's defenses, it's not as if all of Russia's forces at the borde…

While I mostly agree with your assessment you lack to point out that using less troops saves costs, bombing less cities/civilians will make installing a controllable regime to rule there easier. These are all strategic decisions. Implying Putin held back for the sake of the ukranian people is misleading.

He definitely held back for the sake of civilians. Otherwise we wouldn’t have videos of civilians stopping tanks.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#152

Post by dukoid »

dukoid wrote: post #148
EnOstac6 wrote: post #118

And I cannot send donations from Russia to Meduza.io - Lativan based Russian speaking media targeted at Russia mostly. And other Russian people connot do this too. Since Meduza was declared a "foreign agent" by Russian authorities (there's such a heavily burdening law here), they lost most advertisement and changed their model to donations. I'm afraid they wouldn't survive this. And government-owned media will contin…

They seem to accept a lot of forms of payments: https://support.meduza.io/en All of them don't work for you? BTW: Putin seems to be able to defend the Ruble for now at the 1 cent mark. This seems quite hight to me and I'd be concerned for how long they can hold this if I'd be holding RUB...

P.S. I do not want to be cynical. I understand that this will be a very hard time for people living in Russia -- just at the moment it seems much worse for people living in Ukraine, and there seem to be few non-violent options to stop this apart from sanctions. Meduzza looks like a legitimate site and I have donated EUR 100 to them on your behalf.

P.P.S: Please note that the payment setting on the site defaults to monthly.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#153

Post by maigret »

Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #23
rib3ye wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me the treaty where Russia was required to pay back crippling reparations.

Does it matter to the average Russian if the money goes to a foreign state or a handful of oligarchs? The end result is the same. After enduring the communist hellhole for 70 years they should at least have been able to enjoy the fruits of all that labour.

I agree but then you have to change inside, not outside.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#154

Post by Applejinx »

lliamander wrote: post #37
klyrs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought he was cold and calculating until he attacked Ukraine. This looks downright ham-handed and heedless compared to the maneuvering of the decades leading up to now. He's made a damned fool of himself, if you ask me.

It looks stupid to me too. Which is precisely why I think there's information I'm missing. Like, I've seen arguments that the whole "Ukraine joining NATO" justification is just a pretext. But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet. I honestly don't think we'll know the true story for decades.

This may BE the information you were missing.

To some extent I think the extensive propaganda about numerous political/celebrity figures being great and powerful and capable has been a sham from the beginning. I would call the war on Ukraine 'put up or shut up' time, where reality tests the value of the claims that have been made for many, many years.

I think we've all been told a lot of lies for a long time.

History's monsters so often seem to be dumb, deeply fallible, weak humans in the wrong place at the wrong time, doubling down on wrong decisions. I've seen people being unsettled and afraid and going 'but what if it's a feint and then the REAL Russian Army comes to obliterate everything', in the face of the shitshow we're seeing.

Not an accident: the effort that went into putting forth that narrative has been extensive. But once tested, we see where reality lies.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#155

Post by lnxg33k1 »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #126
mike_d wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring Russia by GDP is like measuring a bank robber by their tax return. They have a shit ton of dark money that isn't calculated as part of GDP. Their economy is also in much better shape even with the smaller official calculations, having external debt equal to 38% of GDP compared to 102% for the US.

Who cares about external debt when they are not going to pay it off?

You think so? I am not an expert but afaik it's not that Russia does a lot of things it needs internally and not paying debts doesn't really seem viable if you want to get a currency with which you can pay your procurements?

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#156

Post by neuronic »

dragonwriter wrote: post #96
tomerv wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU.

> The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU. Escalated an existing war that has lasted more than 5 years, and which certain NATO members have been very clear is why Ukraine wasn't being allowed to advance in its quest for membership.

If you're implying that Ukraine has recently escalated "a war lasting 5 years" then that's fundamentally ridiculous and you should be extremely embarrassed. But maybe I read that wrong? In that case I apologize.

Aggression is very very clearly ONLY coming from the Putin inner circle thugs who sacrifice Russian lives to kill Ukrainians and unlawfully attack a sovereign state, recognized as such by the entirety of the UN.

All under the guise of idiotic lies that stink to the Moon. It's incredible how any Russian still listens to Putin, Lawrow and the rest of these thugs. They must fear a lot of repercussions. Russia could be rich, connected and prosperous instead.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#158

Post by EnOstac6 »

dukoid wrote: post #152
dukoid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to accept a lot of forms of payments: https://support.meduza.io/en All of them don't work for you? BTW: Putin seems to be able to defend the Ruble for now at the 1 cent mark. This seems quite hight to me and I'd be concerned for how long they can hold this if I'd be holding RUB...

P.S. I do not want to be cynical. I understand that this will be a very hard time for people living in Russia -- just at the moment it seems much worse for people living in Ukraine, and there seem to be few non-violent options to stop this apart from sanctions. Meduzza looks like a legitimate site and I have donated EUR 100 to them on your behalf. P.P.S: Please note that the payment setting on the site defaults to mo…

Thank you.

It wasn't my intent to compare incomparable hardness of time in Russia and Ukraine.

I didn't aim to campaign for Meduza support either. (Anyways thank you).

I wanted to show that blocking communication channels may do more harm than anticipated.

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#159

Post by eternalban »

lliamander wrote: post #37
klyrs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought he was cold and calculating until he attacked Ukraine. This looks downright ham-handed and heedless compared to the maneuvering of the decades leading up to now. He's made a damned fool of himself, if you ask me.

It looks stupid to me too. Which is precisely why I think there's information I'm missing. Like, I've seen arguments that the whole "Ukraine joining NATO" justification is just a pretext. But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet. I honestly don't think we'll know the true story for decades.

I commented on this a while back (before things got kinetic) regarding the puzzling framing [by Western leaders and media] of the late December treaty proposals (to US and NATO respectively) published in English by Kremlin. At the time, I assumed the media was directed to focus on Ukraine to allow so-called off-ramps to Putin (so he can save face). You can trivially find these treaties on the net if you search for them.

Today Lavrov again repeated the RF's demands for removal of US's nuclear weapons from Europe.

(And yes, I too believe we are not privy to what has transpired in the past few months, if not past year between the various powers. And there is no way short of collective madness in Russian leadership that this "operation" will be limited to Ukraine.)

Re: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

#160

Post by kirso »

nnx wrote: post #84
scandox wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going by history sanctions do tend to entrench authoritarian rulers. I still think there isn't any choice. He used the "Nuclear" word and now I think Europe's policy will be containment for a very long time. Edit: added "be"

> I still think there isn't any choice I don't think we tried to push for Ukraine as neutral state, like Finland, did we? Does EU/NATO really NEED Ukraine to join them? Seems like it would be a simple peaceful discussion worth having rather than risking more suffering. Discussion might not work... but the fact it's not even on the table is absolutely insane.

I think its too late for that. Think Ukraine will push for Putin to have consequences, but I don't think they have enough leverage for that just yet.

The situation is incredibly complicated, but I see a few scenarios:

- Russia succeeds in their siege and installs puppet government, however with a lot of casualties. The west and NATO probably convey their disappointment, continue with sanctions and the diplomatic divide. Ukraine will be split. At least with LDR / DNR with Russian interpretation.

- Ukraine succeeds in holding off the pressure, NATO involves themselves more directly (already partially happening). Russia will unleash their anger - this is the worst case which comes with a lot of unpredictability in terms of destruction and casualties.

- Ukraine / Russia come to an agreement of neutrality. This is becoming highly unlikely as Ukraine will seek revenge for what has been happening till now, Russia will have to remove some of the officials and install theirs - this will never happen under current rule. So the above two scenarios are more likely :(

EDIT: indentation

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