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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#641

Post by jzb »

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

Star Trek is a post-nuclear war story, right? And a post-capitalist society?

So far, humanity still hasn’t felt the need to unify or try to provide for all people. We’re way off from that utopian vision.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#642

Post by willis936 »

9214 wrote: post #557
5ESS wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always marry a foreign National to gain citizenship in that country. The going rate for a US sham marriage is about $60k.

This is an interesting and valid point. Though, even if I could, why would I? Forming a bond (be it faked or real) with a person who might end up despising you for your blood (which you are trying to escape), and then trying to integrate into a hostile foreign culture — it's like trading one hellhole for another. It might be worth the struggle in case of a sincere relationship, but not just for the sake of saving my…

These are valid concerns. There are racists everywhere. From what I can gather most of the US view race as skin color, so I think you are shielded from the most overt racism.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#643

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

jd115 wrote: post #259

Here's my take on this, which you are not going to like one bit. It goes like this... The good people of Russia - and I'm not saying this with a tongue in cheek - the vast majority of the people of Russia truly are GOOD people, in the simplest, most sincere sense of the word... But they do need to go through some things. You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had…

"You just don't get to support a murderous communist regime for 100 years and then say "but we had nothing to do with it"."

The soviet regime is long gone, but with reference to the current regime.

It's been put there and supported by the West. In the shock treatment of the economy, the giving away of the state to an oligarchy and to contracts to western companies, the US and CIA support of Yeltsin up to and including fixing an election against the communists, the support for Putin's first election, the turning a blind eye to what was happening in Chechnya and then Georgia, the expansion of NATO against all advice that it would create and embolden nationalist chauvinistic leadership, the encouragement and protection of the oligarchy class in western countries, the addiction to fossil fuel.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#645

Post by [deleted] »

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#646

Post by willis936 »

modernpink wrote: post #589
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" did not escalate this; Russia did by annexing Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine. They could have chosen not to do so and instead focus on building up good international relationships. What did they think they had to gain from annexing neighbouring territory? More control over the Black Sea I guess, but why do they want that control in the first place? Russia can de-escalate by withdrawing. The only way for 'th…

We also have to understand Russia's grievances instead of seeing it in terms of an evil side attacking the good side because it's not that simple. The US would hardly be best pleased if Mexico started receiving arms from China and North Korea right at its border.

What if Mexico received the arms because the US said they were going to topple Mexico's government?

Russia is not justified, which is why there has been such unification in the West and silence from Russia's powerful allies. Putin made a mistake.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#647

Post by jsmith99 »

cracrecry wrote: post #597
jsmith99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Iraq war was a terrible error but it still can't be compared to Ukraine. America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire. Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism: getting rid of an unquestionably evil dictator who used WMDs on his own people. There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

>Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism. Invading Iraq was on the agenda way before 9/11. The people that decided it are anything but naive. >There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible. Why not? The second largest oil producer in the world is invaded because of altruism out of their great heart. Geopolitics have…

Perhaps I am naive about it, and I certainly agree that Iraq's oil is relevant, although more in the sense of ensuring availability than stealing it. But my point was that America's seemingly uncontrollable urge to export democracy is not always based on $$$, rather Bush and Blair had a messianic ideal that was often well intentioned.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#648

Post by pishpash »

saiya-jin wrote: post #140
sto_hristo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq war while justified by wrong evidence, it was a necessity. Saddam did use WMDs on Kurdish villages - he bombed them with Sarin gas - that is HAVING WMDs. It has nothing to do with imperialism as i don't see any annexations made by the US, nor puppet governments. Ukraine, on the other hand, had territories chipped away from it, separatists backed up Russia for years and years, and now a surprise attack without fo…

Yeah, Saddam did that in 80s, US was still cooperating with him due to Iran/Iraq war (remember that Saddam-Rumsfeld photo? It wasn't staged or some freak coincidence but regular business/military talks and pats on the back). Those attacks didn't stop the cooperation. I don't think anybody powerful really cared about those poor civilians, it was just pretext but in this case a real one. Anyway back to the topic - we e…

I mean sure, but then you'd understand why eastward expansion of a military alliance could be construed as an existential threat, too. There's just a lot of unnecessary hypocrisy all around.

It should also be said that, who is a bully depends on whose interests one happens to align with. Maybe transatlantic interests are always magically aligned forever but somehow I doubt it. One should wonder why or how that comes about, and at whose expense.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#649

Post by 5ESS »

dash2 wrote: post #607
5ESS wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RT isn’t a western media organization. I would be shocked if you could find just one actual major mainstream western media organization that tells the other side of the story.

The Russian state can literally broadcast its own propaganda channel. What more do you want?

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#650

Post by dragonwriter »

dash2 wrote: post #413
teekert wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We talked, but what concessions did we make?

Are you seriously suggesting that the problem with Western policy towards Russia is that we didn’t appease Putin enough? That is, to say the least, a weird take.

I mean, it's exactly the take of the Russian government and it's various Western propaganda repeaters, so it's rather common.
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