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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#101

Post by bsaul »

MrDisposable wrote: post #37
gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

> I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision Drastic. Catastrophic. Suicidal. World-changing. The country (Russia) in its current form has just ceased to exist. The entire parasitic elite class just got cut off from everything they stole during all these years. The entire human potential of Russia just got nullified for at lest 20 years. The push towards green energy (and I hope nuclear fusion) just got a…

i know it's very easy to say, but if you're russian right now, it seems to me that the only sane choice is to actively organize the overthrow of putin.

It's one of the rare case (nuclear war threats), where it may be the safest solution. Especially now that a few public figures in Russia have officially standed against that war. There may be an opportunity to reach a critical mass at home.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#102

Post by nickpp »

darebak wrote: post #93
ardit33 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serbia did commit massive attrocities and genocide against both Bosnians and Albanians in Kosovo. They also had wars with Slovenia, and Croatia. They last gesture was massive ethnic cleansing. The US intervened when things went out of hand. Putin risks to end up like Milosevic, a war criminal.

It did not, if you have any international court verdict that says that Serbia conducted a genocide, I would like to see it. Also Serbia was not at war with Slovenia. Those are the basic facts. Now, even if those things were true, they are claimed by the proponents of bombing, enemies if you will, the same way that Putin is claiming there is a genocide of million Ukrainians in Ukraine. Do you believe your enemies?

Motives matter too. Bombing of Serbia was to stop a bellicose regime and the humanitarian crisis it was creating. It was like bombing Russia right now, which I'd support fully hearted, if it was a possibility.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#103

Post by sorokod »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #21
gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

A big difference is that by and large, Ukraine has won the narrative. There are no "Ukrainian artillery: go fuck yourself" stories. There's also no barely veiled threats by the US that we would nuke Iraq or Afghanistan etc. nor drop the ISS on them.

Ukraine is winning the narrative to a large extent because Russia is not present in this particular battle - most likely because it wanted to keep things quite internally.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#104

Post by namecheapTA »

randomsearch wrote: post #31
namecheapTA wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is whataboutism and it is so tired. A good propaganda tactic though, and the Russians are using it as an attack vector. Westerners seem really vulnerable to this form of propaganda, possibly due to the success of previous information warfare led by Russia. Bringing up some other terrible thing for comparison does not change in any way whatsoever the severity of what is happening in Ukraine. Whataboutism propagan…

Using a tool to help someone see that their thoughts or words are foolish isn't a bad thing. People are getting very emotional about this entire situation, which is understandable. But then they are getting on their internet soap boxes and saying things that don't make any real sense and they don't really believe. I was simply trying to make OP realize that his extremely harsh comments are just platitudes, by reminding OP that in very similar situations he basically did nothing.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#105

Post by DoingIsLearning »

MrDisposable wrote: post #37
gnull wrote: post #11

As a side question, how similar is Putin's war in Ukraine to the numerous wars started by U.S. (say, in the middle East, Yugoslavia)? Are these fair to compare? I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision, not to justify it or engage in whataboutism.

> I'm trying to understand the scale of Putin's decision Drastic. Catastrophic. Suicidal. World-changing. The country (Russia) in its current form has just ceased to exist. The entire parasitic elite class just got cut off from everything they stole during all these years. The entire human potential of Russia just got nullified for at lest 20 years. The push towards green energy (and I hope nuclear fusion) just got a…

Can I ask, how are these economic restrictions affecting you in your daily life? Are people able to access money at their banks? Do you predict any future food security issues? Also in your opinion, what is the likely end game now for Putin?

Putin is unlikely to win this war, Ukraine have been given near unlimited anti-tank weapons by the EU/US, and have air superiority now with extra MiG's donated by NATO and TB2 drones from Turkey. Locals are set and prepared for guerrilla warfare. All the usual allies have distanced themselves from Russia. The writing is on the wall.

Is it likely that another oligarch will take his place? Is there any indication that top military might force his replacement? Is any of the economic suffering imposed now likely to force everyone to come out to the streets?

Edited: 'gorilla warfare'

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#106

Post by darebak »

ardit33 wrote: post #76
darebak wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it fair to sanction them? No. Should we do it if it helps destabilizing Putin? Yes, absolutely, even more than we are doing now. As someone who was from a country where sanctions were supposed to destabilize our leader, it doesn't work, never did, never will. In the tough times people rally behind their leaders, just look at Zelensky or Boris Johnson right now.

Not true. When people get hungry, they eat their leaders.... Look at what happened to Ceaușescu... Putin risks to end up like him.

Not true.

Tell me, if Google banned you from all their services because you only lived somewhere and you were a "soft liberal", would you support Google in their decision or would you dig in and go the other way? Or in more simpler terms, take football fans, are they hungry at their ultras when they get fined for something or are they angry at UEFA?

All Europe is doing by these discrimination measures is creating a siege mentality among Russian citizens.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#107

Post by watwut »

darebak wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how quite a few Polish, Slovak and so on people see it. Slovak president said literally that too. There is nothing absolutely nothing to suggest Russia is interested only in Ukraine in the long term. They will stop only if they have to. Putin arguments about Russian history points toward expansion. Putin arguments about being entitled to Ukraine due to them being forced into USSR or Ukraine not being real…

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Russia is interested in anything other than Ukraine. Everything else is just fear mongering, atleast Slovak media does that well.

Yeah, they have history of being truth-telling peaceful nation, always happy with what they have /s

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#108

Post by MrDisposable »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #73
MrDisposable wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you know if its only incorporation in EU countries? Anywhere abroad. It is illegal (and has been illegal since 2014 or so, can't remember) for a Russian resident to have a controlling stake in a company not incorporated in Russia. > is that transactions out of the country or any transaction It's about transfers of funds from Russia to foreign bank (and "bank-like") accounts. Accepting money from abroad is still…

> Anywhere abroad. It is illegal (and has been illegal since 2014 or so, can't remember) for a Russian resident to have a controlling stake in a company not incorporated in Russia. Do you know if that also applies for legal entities or only natural persons? That would mean a Russian holding company for the shares? Its a structure common even inside the EU as well for tax reasons.

  > Do you know if that also applies for legal entities or only natural persons?
Not sure (would adive to consult a lawyer), but it's quite possible that it applies both to physical persons AND legal entities.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#109

Post by lucky1759 »

darebak wrote: post #93
ardit33 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serbia did commit massive attrocities and genocide against both Bosnians and Albanians in Kosovo. They also had wars with Slovenia, and Croatia. They last gesture was massive ethnic cleansing. The US intervened when things went out of hand. Putin risks to end up like Milosevic, a war criminal.

It did not, if you have any international court verdict that says that Serbia conducted a genocide, I would like to see it. Also Serbia was not at war with Slovenia. Those are the basic facts. Now, even if those things were true, they are claimed by the proponents of bombing, enemies if you will, the same way that Putin is claiming there is a genocide of million Ukrainians in Ukraine. Do you believe your enemies?

Here you go:

https://www.rferl.org/a/yugoslavia-hague-tribunal-major-mome...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/bosnian-serb-military-l...

Multiple ethnic "serbs" were convicted of genociding muslims.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#110

Post by yongjik »

jsmith99 wrote: post #86
randomsearch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, intervention in Yugoslavia wasn’t a war started by the US. The Kuwait war was after an invasion by Iraq and at the invitation of the government there, and the US were restrained enough to halt at the Iraq border. The Syrian war was not started by the US, and it has played a minor part there. In fact, it is Russia that has indiscriminately bombed Syrian cities and targeted civilians and hospitals there. Afghanis…

The Iraq war was a terrible error but it still can't be compared to Ukraine. America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire. Despite the enormous death and suffering the war caused, America's aim was naive altruism: getting rid of an unquestionably evil dictator who used WMDs on his own people. There are conspiracy theories that America invaded to steal Iraq's oil but they are not plausible.

> America had no plans to colonise Iraq or absorb it into its empire.

Well, of course, because then America would have had to give Iraqis the same rights as other Americans, or build a discriminatory system where "real" Americans enjoy more rights than them.

Not that colonizing Iraq would have been justified, but since the war wasn't justifiable anyway - the decision to not colonize Iraq was not out of goodwill, but because it was cheaper that way.

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