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Heat people, not spaces (2015)

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Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#271

Post by throw0101a »

coryrc wrote: post #89
throw0101a wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast the older philosophy is that natural ventilation is good enough, so we design houses to improve that, such as strategic placement of windows to allow cross ventilation, use high ceilings to allow heat to rise, etc. Yeah, and all those open windows bring in pollen and dust. Yay! Hope you have a good bug screen as well. Of course if there's high humidity then all than ventilation may not help because the…

People lived before 1902 and the invention of compressor-based air conditioning.

People lived before 1945 and the wide availability of penicillin/antibiotics. A lot more folks died from infection as well.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#272

Post by paulcole »

novok wrote: post #60

An issue with keeping yourself warm with clothing is some hotspots get too warm, and others too cold. Like the armpits usually get too warm, but your exposed hands too cold. If your slippers have sheep's wool in them, like ugg slippers, then they often sweat a lot or feel a little wet while simultaneously feeling cold at times, or warm enough. Most sweaters are also not designed to keep your armpits a little bit cool…

If the future of climate change tells us anything, then people better get a bit more comfortable with being a lot more uncomfortable.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#273

Post by throw0101a »

myth2018 wrote: post #49
throw0101a wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The new houses are designed with zero consideration about ventilation, designers seem to take for granted that you are going to buy an AC system. These are two separate problems. In the ideal situation, you generally want the house to be fairly air tight and condition the air for (a) temperature and (b) humidity. Each of (a) and (b) are taken care of by different mechanical units: one is monitored by a thermometer…

> These are two separate problems I've learned a lot about US climates and their notion of ventilation, here at the comments I got. I hope you guys also have found interesting that, in some other parts of the globe, ventilation and air cooling are two very interconnected concepts. And also that, in climates like ours, relying solely on AC while not taking advantage of the cooling properties of moving air masses means…

'Traditional' ways may break down in more extreme situations:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49628275

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#274

Post by throw0101a »

hedora wrote: post #132
throw0101a wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast the older philosophy is that natural ventilation is good enough, so we design houses to improve that, such as strategic placement of windows to allow cross ventilation, use high ceilings to allow heat to rise, etc. Yeah, and all those open windows bring in pollen and dust. Yay! Hope you have a good bug screen as well. Of course if there's high humidity then all than ventilation may not help because the…

Modern (post energy crisis) houses have 10-100x higher indoor air pollution than the outdoor air. CO2 concentration is also an issue. Older houses didn't have those issues, but energy consumption and humidity regulation were nightmares. Removing drafts created and solved many difficult engineering problems. I think having a tightly sealed house with lots of openable windows is a good solution. Most days, you can hope…

> Most days, you can hopefully leave the windows open during the day and/or night. On smoky/hot/cold days you can run filters and ac/heat.

I'm in Toronto, Canada: our winters are -10C and our summers are hot-humid 30C.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto#Climate

Leaving windows open is not the preferred option for most of the year (though I grew up in a house with A/C, and only first experienced an abode with in in my 20s).

Further, more places are getting bouts of extreme weather:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#275

Post by JKCalhoun »

GeekyBear wrote: post #67
myth2018 wrote: post #12

I've been thinking about the inverse problem. I live in a very warm city. Air conditioning (cooling spaces) is the norm, but tons of money are spent with installations, maintenance and the monthly electricity bill. The new houses are designed with zero consideration about ventilation, designers seem to take for granted that you are going to buy an AC system. Oftentimes, a very simple change in the project would be en…

I had family members who lived in a home in the deep south that was built before air conditioning was common. It had a large fan in the ceiling of a central hallway that vented the air from the inside the house out through the attic. This was an industrial grade fan that moved a huge volume of air. At bedtime, they could open the bedroom windows and turn on the fan and a stiff wind would blow in through all the bedro…

I installed a whole-house fan in our place in San Jose. That plus ceiling fans in each bedroom meant we could go all year without A/C. This was the Bay Area though.

I had remembered whole-house fans when growing up in Kansas — many of my friends had homes with them. They could be noisy but really did make for a nice house breeze in the evening.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#276

Post by dingaling »

ip26 wrote: post #174
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think that drastically lowering the temperature in unmodified buildings will create other problems like mold because you move the dew point so the moisture generated by residents will condensate in problematic places, e.g. inside insulation.

Windows. Even nice double pane windows ice heavily in your bedroom overnight if it's 58F in the house & you've drawn the curtains. Later, the ice slowly melts. Drip, drip.

We have triple-glazed windows and they condensate on the outside. The inside is always bone dry.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#277

Post by wffurr »

oxplot wrote: post #239
_Algernon_ wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment gives of the same vibes as people not wearing a mask because it "suffocates" them.

I suffer from hyperventilation syndrome and anything that brings my attention to my breathing (including wearing a mask) sets it off. I feel suffocated wearing a mask. I can get out of breath, have tachycardia, dizziness, chest pain if I wear it for a long time. And yet I wear my mask everywhere I'm asked to. There is a big difference between feeling suffocated in your own home where no one else is involved vs. among…

Doesn't seem like your opinion on sweaters makes for generally applicable advice, given your health condition.

Prefacing every bit of advice with, but if you have a serious medical condition then please modify this advice to suit, will get pretty tedious after a while.

In general, many people could stand to lower their thermostats in cold climates by 2⁰ or so by wearing appropriate clothing.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#278

Post by 988747 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #248
wheels wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In continental Europe (Germany, specifically is where I have experience), most apartments are so well insulated that they don't even get significantly cold without the heat on. I often travel in winter, and have come back home, say, mid-February after a month away, and my apartments have never been lower than 15º C (about 60º F) inside. (Admittedly, it'd be colder if everyone in the building had their heat off.) That…

Yes, I have heating in every room in my apartment in Berlin. But I only use the one in my living room. I never heat my two bed rooms or the bathroom. The rest of the apartment is a bit cooler but stays warm thanks to the neighbors below me heating their apartment. I actually prefer sleeping in a cold bed room so I never use the heating in there. I just toss on an extra blanket when it gets really cold outside. I gene…

>> stays warm thanks to the neighbors below me heating their apartment.

So you're basically stealing the heat from your neighbors :) You can see how that strategy falls apart if everyone starts doing it?

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#279

Post by JKCalhoun »

bitwize wrote: post #83
throwaway984393 wrote: post #61

We have very very very good insulation now. We don't really need to stop heating spaces, we need to prevent heat loss. In addition we could use more modern heating systems which actually heat rooms only when needed.

Eh, depends on where you live. I was surprised, for example, to find out the abysmal state of insulation in New Zealand. Only in the last five decades have Kiwis had decent insulation standards -- for new construction. Homes from before that time often remain without adequate insulation -- and it gets cold throughout much of New Zealand! Many new Japanese homes are uninsulated, with the residents using "heat the pers…

My daughter just told me the other day she wanted to try to make a Kotatsu. I had no idea what that was. I see the article mentions them!

Looked them up, priced them on Amazon (for a good looking one? ouch!), and then decided I will build my own version of one this year before next winter comes (I like woodworking).

And I will also build one for my daughter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#280

Post by GeekyBear »

bluGill wrote: post #259
GeekyBear wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had family members who lived in a home in the deep south that was built before air conditioning was common. It had a large fan in the ceiling of a central hallway that vented the air from the inside the house out through the attic. This was an industrial grade fan that moved a huge volume of air. At bedtime, they could open the bedroom windows and turn on the fan and a stiff wind would blow in through all the bedro…

I.have one in my house, it is going to be removed in the near future. It works good some days, but modern ac is still better. When we use the ac it lets hot air from the attic in, and worse all winter it is letting cold air from the attic in. The thing can really be insulated. There is a lot about this house that needs to be updated to modern energy standards and getting rid of that fan is on the list. Overall it cos…

>When we use the ac it lets hot air from the attic in, and worse all winter it is letting cold air from the attic in.

The one in my relative's house had louvers that would open when you turned the fan on and then close when you turned it off, so it sealed itself off when not in use.

They saved a fortune by not having to run the ac all summer.

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