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Heat people, not spaces (2015)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#251

Post by Retric »

wolverine876 wrote: post #196
xigoi wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you wear gloves indoors? If not, aren't your hands colder? If yes, how do you cook or work with a computer?

> Do you wear gloves indoors? If not, aren't your hands colder? No and no. The temperature in my home is set just warm enough that a sweater (and let me add, shoes - insulation from the coldest air and surface in the room) keeps me comfortable. My hands don't get chilled at that temperature. FWIW - from wilderness experience - it is widely believed that the best way to warm your hands is often to warm your core. Your…

In other words you keep the space hotter to increase your personal comfort.

It’s perfectly viable to keep a living space just above freezing. You however need gloves to stay comfortable at 3-4C (38f).

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#252

Post by fristechill »

gkop wrote: post #140
kccqzy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the problem with newer design and construction philosophy. Its premise is that we will use mechanical systems, and then try to make these mechanical systems more efficient such as improving insulation, using multi-stage condensers for the AC, etc. This is epitomized in the passive house concept. In contrast the older philosophy is that natural ventilation is good enough, so we design houses to improve…

My personal preference is deeply in the natural ventilation camp, and the typically delicious air we have in the Bay Area is a boon to my wellness. I leave the windows mostly open 24/7 three seasons, and in the winter I partially open them during significant portions of the day. It’s wonderful. But during the worsening wildfires seasons, I must tightly seal and air purify my apartment for weeks straight, and had to b…

I think your preferences make total sense. Though I have little experience with wildfires. Would an air filter help?

For my own eccentricities, I have the bedroom window open slightly while sleeping, closed when awake.

During the winter, when inside I wrap up in warm clothes, thermals, scarf. When exercising outside I wear only one or two layers. I call it the 'Winter Paradox'.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#253

Post by LaurensBER »

taoufix wrote: post #250

One thing that always bothered me about energy waste are fridges in the cold winter. Outside the house is cold, so we heat the house. Outside the fridge (house) is hot, so we cool inside fridge. Is there no option for fridges/freezers to get cold air from outside the house? Or is the overcomplication not worth it?

I imagine that the challenge is maintaining a constant temperature. If you want to use cool air from outside to cool the food you either need a way to stop doing that when it gets too cold or include a heating element. Both options will probably get expensive quite fast.

If you want to save energy buying a coolbox and storing some stuff outside during the winter is probably far easier and cheaper ;)

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#254

Post by oxplot »

taoufix wrote: post #250

One thing that always bothered me about energy waste are fridges in the cold winter. Outside the house is cold, so we heat the house. Outside the fridge (house) is hot, so we cool inside fridge. Is there no option for fridges/freezers to get cold air from outside the house? Or is the overcomplication not worth it?

Fridges with top doors tend to lose lot less cool air when opened than the regular front door ones.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#255

Post by elorant »

I had this thought when I got an electric blanket. What's the point of heating the whole room when with a mere 60 watt you can have a warm and cozy bed. Electric clothes would be ideal, if we could find a solution for small and practical batteries.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#256

Post by DocTomoe »

oxplot wrote: post #254
taoufix wrote: post #250

One thing that always bothered me about energy waste are fridges in the cold winter. Outside the house is cold, so we heat the house. Outside the fridge (house) is hot, so we cool inside fridge. Is there no option for fridges/freezers to get cold air from outside the house? Or is the overcomplication not worth it?

Fridges with top doors tend to lose lot less cool air when opened than the regular front door ones.

I know freezers with a top door, but no fridges - and frankly, I imagine a top-loaded fridge to be impractical in kitchen use unless there is some way to reach the bottom more easily. Do you have a link to a fridge like that so I can imagine the concept better?

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#257

Post by oxplot »

DocTomoe wrote: post #256
oxplot wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fridges with top doors tend to lose lot less cool air when opened than the regular front door ones.

I know freezers with a top door, but no fridges - and frankly, I imagine a top-loaded fridge to be impractical in kitchen use unless there is some way to reach the bottom more easily. Do you have a link to a fridge like that so I can imagine the concept better?

> Do you have a link to a fridge like that so I can imagine the concept better?

Large camping fridges are as close as I have seen, but I'm sure someone's thought of one for domestic use.

As for practicality in the kitchen, I can imagine a design where you have multiple medium sized fridge drawers. Once pulled out, you can open their top lid and access the content. This way, you don't have one deep container, but rather, multiple shallower containers. For efficiency, a single compressor can feed all of them.

EDIT: actually I've seen freezer drawers - you just need to dial the cooling down a bit.

Another idea: Vertically long rectangular compartments that can be pulled out individually. Essentially a whole bunch of vertical drawers of different sizes, with meshed walls to allow air to pass through them.

Another silly idea: a horizontally mounted ferris wheel

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#258

Post by kwhitefoot »

momenti wrote: post #227
scott0129 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the issue of "fingers are cold but gloves affect mobility", purchasing a pair of thumbhole arm warmers have made a world of difference for me They're almost like fingerless gloves, but more comfortable and easier to manage. You might be worried "but it's the fingers that are cold anyway, so fingerless gloves are not what I need." I thought that too, but trying them immediately proved me wrong and I never had an i…

It's a shame that these are stereotyped as female fashion accessory.

Only where you are.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#259

Post by bluGill »

GeekyBear wrote: post #67
myth2018 wrote: post #12

I've been thinking about the inverse problem. I live in a very warm city. Air conditioning (cooling spaces) is the norm, but tons of money are spent with installations, maintenance and the monthly electricity bill. The new houses are designed with zero consideration about ventilation, designers seem to take for granted that you are going to buy an AC system. Oftentimes, a very simple change in the project would be en…

I had family members who lived in a home in the deep south that was built before air conditioning was common. It had a large fan in the ceiling of a central hallway that vented the air from the inside the house out through the attic. This was an industrial grade fan that moved a huge volume of air. At bedtime, they could open the bedroom windows and turn on the fan and a stiff wind would blow in through all the bedro…

I.have one in my house, it is going to be removed in the near future. It works good some days, but modern ac is still better. When we use the ac it lets hot air from the attic in, and worse all winter it is letting cold air from the attic in. The thing can really be insulated.

There is a lot about this house that needs to be updated to modern energy standards and getting rid of that fan is on the list. Overall it costs far more than it saves.

Re: Heat people, not spaces (2015)

#260

Post by bluGill »

hedora wrote: post #132
throw0101a wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast the older philosophy is that natural ventilation is good enough, so we design houses to improve that, such as strategic placement of windows to allow cross ventilation, use high ceilings to allow heat to rise, etc. Yeah, and all those open windows bring in pollen and dust. Yay! Hope you have a good bug screen as well. Of course if there's high humidity then all than ventilation may not help because the…

Modern (post energy crisis) houses have 10-100x higher indoor air pollution than the outdoor air. CO2 concentration is also an issue. Older houses didn't have those issues, but energy consumption and humidity regulation were nightmares. Removing drafts created and solved many difficult engineering problems. I think having a tightly sealed house with lots of openable windows is a good solution. Most days, you can hope…

Heating and insulation need to be a system. You can't install the heat pump first as it needs to be sized to fit the energy loss of the house.
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