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US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

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Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#61

Post by elp »

basementcat wrote: post #52
jkmcf wrote: post #26

In the last 30 years I can’t recall a single time sanctions have worked.

Might be just outside your threshold but the divestment campaign against South Africa is credited with helping to end the system of Apartheid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Afr...

The disinvestment campaign did very little except transfer ownership of some of the largest companies in the country to South Africans and I would assume the bulk of that would have ended up in the hands of the politically connected.

Sanctions also didn't do much. There was a thriving market for goods from overseas. Even now more than 30 years later there's a tradition of giving your relatives a list of things to buy when they travel internationally. Sanctions probably indirectly hurt poor South Africans but never anyone politically connected.

What really hurt and forced the Apartheid government to start seeing sense was the IMF ending all loans. http://kora.matrix.msu.edu/files/50/304/32-130-4C3-84-africa...

I think the Swift banking system ban proposal for Russia would be more likely to work.

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#62

Post by BenoitP »

How about Gerhard Schröder? I'm not very up to date about his role at the boards of Rosneft and Gazprom, but I'm pretty sure he must have had an influence somewhere in the current situation (although indirectly, and he probably was played)

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#63

Post by gutitout »

BenoitP wrote: post #62

How about Gerhard Schröder? I'm not very up to date about his role at the boards of Rosneft and Gazprom, but I'm pretty sure he must have had an influence somewhere in the current situation (although indirectly, and he probably was played)

Amazing point. What was his role in shutting down nuclear? (If any)

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#65

Post by gutitout »

elp wrote: post #61
basementcat wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be just outside your threshold but the divestment campaign against South Africa is credited with helping to end the system of Apartheid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Afr...

The disinvestment campaign did very little except transfer ownership of some of the largest companies in the country to South Africans and I would assume the bulk of that would have ended up in the hands of the politically connected. Sanctions also didn't do much. There was a thriving market for goods from overseas. Even now more than 30 years later there's a tradition of giving your relatives a list of things to buy…

Ban SWIFT get CISP. I wonder how printing USD will look then.

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#66

Post by jdrc »

tartoran wrote: post #14
jdrc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vlad is a romanian name

How is this relevant? Vlad here is short for Vlaidmir anyway, a russian name. Romanians have Vlad but I suspect its origins are Slavic.

I ve been told it's not the right way to refer to Putin, which is probably correct, there are are other dimunitives

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#67

Post by actuator »

Terry_Roll wrote: post #45
actuator wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one Queen of England(queen of a lot of other nations as well) doesn't have any power like say what Saudi King or Putin has. She is a mere ceremonial head. Also, from what I have read, the estimates of her wealth doesn't even make her a billionaire.

I think she is worth about £350 million private wealth but the British Monarchy as an entity is worth about £70billion so a lot more than Putin's reported £18billion. The Queen is reportedly also able to spend 15% of the Crown Estate which holds about about £10billion in land assets. Prince Philip was paid half a million a year by Govt and the Queen is paid £65million a year. https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/royals…

> so whilst she has never exercised her powers to cancel Govt, she has the legal authority to do this.

Yeah, my point was more on the lines of, she doesn't use that power, making her a ceremonial head unlike the other two. I think this is one of those things, where if she does exercise her power even for cancelling a resolution passed by the commons, it would immediately lead to public outcry. It might even mean eventually throwing away the monarchy.

Even for something major as Brexit, we don't know what she thought of it, there was an outfit she wore that was speculated to show her support of the EU, but I remember that was it.

> British Monarchy as an entity is worth about £70billion

Does this come from the assets they hold? As far as I remember, they don't own some of those outright. They get a share of the revenue those things make.

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#68

Post by 3pt14159 »

actuator wrote: post #67
Terry_Roll wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she is worth about £350 million private wealth but the British Monarchy as an entity is worth about £70billion so a lot more than Putin's reported £18billion. The Queen is reportedly also able to spend 15% of the Crown Estate which holds about about £10billion in land assets. Prince Philip was paid half a million a year by Govt and the Queen is paid £65million a year. https://www.standard.co.uk/insider/royals…

> so whilst she has never exercised her powers to cancel Govt, she has the legal authority to do this. Yeah, my point was more on the lines of, she doesn't use that power, making her a ceremonial head unlike the other two. I think this is one of those things, where if she does exercise her power even for cancelling a resolution passed by the commons, it would immediately lead to public outcry. It might even mean even…

No, the Monarchy does use its power. It has in Canada multiple times.

Anyway, not going to keep debating this. Wealth is something that can be reasoned about when an individual doesn't have serious security concerns and when an individual doesn't have meaningful coercive power through use of force.

But a billionaire in a new communist state isn't really a billionaire any more than a despotic dictator is since they can't really retain the wealth absent ongoing action and so much of the assets under their command belong to the state.

I'll put it another way, if Russia has a democratic uprising like Ukraine did, who will own Putin's giant mansion. It's obviously not Putin.

Real billionaires can move the vast majority of their assets out of a country without anyone seriously putting up a fight.

Re: US Sanctions Vladimir Putin

#69

Post by rodneyzeng »

Natsu wrote: post #31
pshirshov wrote: post #24

Well, I wanted to see this for years. Not like I'm satisfied though, what's happening there is an unimaginable crime.

What surprised me the most was that Biden's response was basically that he'd talk about it in the morning with world leaders [1] and not something like let's enact tonight plans we made during the time we were warning that this was going to happen. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

Wall Street had some interests against this plan, but it seems they have agreed about it.
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