Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#151

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

ScarletEmerald wrote: post #80

TheFreim wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. I think this hinges on what problem you identify. If someone identifies centralized financial systems as bad, even if they're efficient, the problem is real and the solution fits the problem. If you contest this, as many do for good reason, it becomes a solution in search of a problem.

The solution doesn't fit the problem though. Sure, in theory bitcoin-style cryptocurrencies can replace centralized financial systems. But, as keeps being demonstrated, including by this very example, in practice what you end up with is different, less-efficient, centralized financial systems dominated by fraud.

how is it less efficient? Obviously btc can't replace the financial system but crypto can.

Investors in the next 10 years are going to realise that an omnipool was all that was needed in the first place and the NYSE is a dinosaur in comparison.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#152

Post by rvz » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #121

rvz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy. Criminals, extremists and fraudsters use Signal for E2EE communications and MobileCoin (an untraceable, privacy cryptocurrency) to fund it all. [0] It is what criminals and terrorists are using to make their activities impossible to trace. Got to thank MobileCoin for enabling that. [0] https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360057625692-In...

MobileCoin whitepaper didn't make any claims about untraceability, AFAIK.

What does 'No one except for the sender and receiver can see the details of the transaction.' with an encrypted blockchain tell you about MobileCoin's traceability?

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#153

Post by atlantas » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

With crypto you can transfer your wealth across borders away from oppressive regimes or an incoming army by memorizing 12 words.

It's hard to overstate how valuable that is for anyone who finds themselves in that position, and it's becoming more relevant by the day.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#154

Post by malermeister » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

blueprint wrote: post #139

NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

This is bullshit. People deserve a way to send money without middlemen and unfortunately that requires a means of attempting censorship resistance or at least consensus within a nearly arbitrarily adversarial network.

> People deserve a way to send money without middlemen

Why? Please don't just make unfounded assertions.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#155

Post by ninth_ant » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #136

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

> The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomorrow if they chose to. China banned mining and mining was gone immediately (largely moving to Kyrgystan it seems). Defenders will say you can't shut down the network and that might be true but it's irrelevant. How is it irrelevant? The ban in China did not affect the operation of the network. With re…

If Western nations enacted policies on bitcoin similar to China, this wouldn’t shut down the network entirely but would drive it underground. This would limit the usefulness and presumably value of the network, at the very least.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#156

Post by vageli » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #85

pricees wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to donate to a cause that Justin Trudeau finds "unacceptable." I want to send money to Ukraine. I think this week we saw problems with tradfi in the developed and developing world. And of course in the good ole US of A, I hear stories of civil forfeiture every other month.

“Civil forfeiture” does not and has never meant “fiat forfeiture.” If the government tells you to forfeit your assets (justly or unjustly!), you can be certain that they will not be amused or deterred by attempts to hide those assets via cryptocurrency.

> “Civil forfeiture” does not and has never meant “fiat forfeiture.” If the government tells you to forfeit your assets (justly or unjustly!), you can be certain that they will not be amused or deterred by attempts to hide those assets via cryptocurrency.

If they don't know it exists, they can't take it. Just like I can cross the border with a hundred thousand in crypto in a wallet. And even if they find the hardware wallet, that is not enough to seize the funds, especially if it's a brain wallet or something similar. The same simply doesn't exist for fiat.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#157

Post by vmception » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #145

dcolkitt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that "financial crimes" can mean very different things to very different regimes. In Nazi Germany, it was a "financial crime" for Jews to take any wealth with them when they emigrated.

This idea that cryptocurrency is good because it enables “good” crimes (avoiding unjust oppressive governments) is at odds with the hard facts that cryptocurrency is used for “bad” crimes far more often. Many orders of magnitude more often, in fact. I just can’t buy into these arguments that we should be overlooking these rampant frauds and crimes (like the multi-billion fraud in this article and many more like it) b…

Actually yes assume those things happen and move the oppressive government further down the line to see a pro-crypto absurdity:

Are we supposed to believe that crypto is magically cleaned when the oppressive government seizes it and uses it or resells it? for all purposes right now, thats true and no transaction flagging software is advanced enough to consider that yet.

Woah woah that crypto came out of a mixer at some point in time!!! Thats used for “bad” crimes orders of magnitude more than “good crimes”, I think….

Oh nevermind, this passed through one of the seoveriegn washer addresses later, all good!”

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#158

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #46

leashless wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is climate change. https://medium.com/humanizing-the-singularity/can-the-world-... Smart contracts are the best shot we have of doing carbon, methane etc. tracking, managing offsetting payments and everything else required to start getting a grip on the CO2 emissions of the consumer economy.

This may well be a troll. I really want to believe that it is because the alternative is too depressing. I have a sinking feeling it isn't a troll however. I see so many Crypto Andys who argue for crypto out of unadulterated gross naivete about how anything outside of a very narrow slice of crypto works. The obvious problem is that crypto is hugely energy inefficient. Bitcoin in particular consumes a ton of energy wi…

>whereas PoS is more like a democracy where you get one vote for every $1 you have

Less like this and more of how a company is run in real life. Investor, founder, codebase contributor and early coin buyers have alot of the say in the network... Which actually is exactly how it should be. If you were involved in the creation of the network, you should have a say in it's path forward... So am i missing something or does POS completely invalidate your arguments?

>And again, any such ideas suffer from the same problem all crypto does interfacing with the real world. Like how do you agree on the value of something releasing (or potentially sequestering) carbon (or methane or whatever)? It's up for debate. How do you make sure what someone emits is what they claimed to have?

Same way we do it now... Outside validation. The only thing it would do is make it more resistant to fraud is you can have multiple oracles in an open contract that eveeryone will cry foul over if it. Additionally, some of those oracles can be IOT objects controlling and reporting emissions.

These are all solved problems that you are bringing up, the only thing new here is that smart contracts would allow a number of novel things to be done with carbon credits like swapping them for various assets, more controlled reporting with a fixed standard, greater visibility across the supply chain, etc. etc.

I get he didn't explain himself, but there are smart contracts on !Ink which is POS and eth is trying to transition to POS if they can convince individuals to bet on the concensus change.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#159

Post by malermeister » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #147

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

>Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. People don't understand crypto yet... play around with it a bit. Things not possible in the current financial system: - Participate in a crowdlown on polkadot. - Play around in some DeFi. Earn yield on two assets. - Store some files hyperlocally and encrypted on peoples laptop with filecoin. And learn how persistant indexing will help the…

> the potential to shake up the class system.

0.01% of bitcoin holders controls 27% of the currency in circulation. [0]

If this is changing the class system in any way, it's for the worse.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoins-one-percent-controls-l...

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#160

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

malermeister wrote: post #159

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. People don't understand crypto yet... play around with it a bit. Things not possible in the current financial system: - Participate in a crowdlown on polkadot. - Play around in some DeFi. Earn yield on two assets. - Store some files hyperlocally and encrypted on peoples laptop with filecoin. And learn how persistant indexing will help the…

> the potential to shake up the class system. 0.01% of bitcoin holders controls 27% of the currency in circulation. [0] If this is changing the class system in any way, it's for the worse. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoins-one-percent-controls-l...

Because i doubt the roth childs are among those whales.