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Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

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Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#51
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. > - Upton Sinclair

Is this a pro or con comment? Could be both I suppose.

Pro-cryptocurrency comments are usually cons.

And unfortunately nobody's salary depends on preventing other people from shilling get-rich-quick pyramid schemes. (Except maybe for dang's.)

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is at the top that gains from all of this? In a ponzi scheme the people higher in the pyramid are anyone who joined in the past and is trying to grow it. You could say Satoshi with his early mining and various other "insiders", whether their identity is known or not, are at the top. I don't necessarily agree that it's a ponzi scheme, although I'm sympathetic with many anti-crypto arguments, but that's the reaso…

Ponzi scheme? Perhaps not. So maybe we need a new word? It's a new invention, and thus might require a new lexicon to capture its essence.

Here are some terms that already exists: 'economic bubble', 'pump and dump', 'greater fool theory', ...

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#53
post #44

Nice job. Now if only some people would see the difference between an actual ponzi scheme like this one and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. That would be nice.

The common characteristic is that "early adopters" get disproportionately large returns compared to later adopters. Indeed those later adopters are financing the exit of the participants who "got in first". In this way it's like a Ponzi scheme, but the same could be said for stocks. You might call the above a simplification; that is fine -- my point is that this is a (inaccurate) linguistic shorthand -- calling somet…

It's grossly untrue to say it's a Ponzi scheme "like stocks" which are part ownership in companies that actually sell things in the real world and are valued by the present value of their future expected cash flows, rather than cryptocurrencies which have no such relationship to the real world, and some would argue are valued entirely on the premise of returns that can only be sustained by finding the next sucker.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any difference.

I'm very sympathetic with many of the "anti"-crypto arguments but to say there is no difference between BitConnect and Bitcoin/Ethereum is just wrong. You might believe their value is based on a similar concept, pyramid scheme type construct, but they still have massive differences. Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ (even if you ultimately come to the conclusion that that something is bad).

Plausible deniability is one of ways the cryptocurrency schemes have continued for so long without collapsing - members can convince themselves that Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. aren't ponzi/pyramid schemes because they "do something". Furthermore, that "something" can keep changing over time (e.g. for Ethereum it was first ICOs and DApps, currently it is NFTs and DeFi, and in future likely to be something else), which keeps the schemes self-sustaining. It is the plausible deniability and evolving self-sustainability which are the main advantages Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. have over simpler schemes like BitConnect.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#56
post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

>China banned mining and mining was gone immediately (largely moving to Kyrgystan it seems).

Kearney, NE seems like a popular destination too, for crypto mining.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/1081252187/bitcoin-cryptocurr...

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is at the top that gains from all of this? In a ponzi scheme the people higher in the pyramid are anyone who joined in the past and is trying to grow it. You could say Satoshi with his early mining and various other "insiders", whether their identity is known or not, are at the top. I don't necessarily agree that it's a ponzi scheme, although I'm sympathetic with many anti-crypto arguments, but that's the reaso…

Ponzi scheme? Perhaps not. So maybe we need a new word? It's a new invention, and thus might require a new lexicon to capture its essence.

Sounds like a fiat currency in many respects. Which is funny since that’s what it was supposed to not be.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#58
post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

> Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen.

I think this hinges on what problem you identify. If someone identifies centralized financial systems as bad, even if they're efficient, the problem is real and the solution fits the problem. If you contest this, as many do for good reason, it becomes a solution in search of a problem.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume for the faith of your argument that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Who is at the top that gains from all of this? And how are you gonna indict "them" when seemingly no one knows who they are?

Let's just agree to call it a distributed digital Ponzi scheme used for ledgerdemain.

Ledger. I see what you did there.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Even without the Ponzi scheme and market manipulation; Proof-of-Work based cryptocurrencies are an ecological catastrophe. Other Proof-of-Something™ currencies do not bring much to the table either. At some point it's only normal there's a push back against cryptocurrencies.

That’s why the vast majority of L1s are not proof of work.

Yet Bitcoin is still considered the OG token and a "true" cryptocurrency as mentioned above and not old dangerous tech.

Also in the last 10 years, only a handful of tokens have had a somewhat usable blockchain which grinds to a halt anytime people share pictures of cats or monkeys and we're told to wait for another year or two for an update to whatever protocol is trendy at the moment. Rinse and repeat every year. Also also, every other year a cryptocurrency comes along and professes to be the second coming of God with solutions to problems with don't have.

So no, not interested.

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