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Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

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Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very sympathetic with many of the "anti"-crypto arguments but to say there is no difference between BitConnect and Bitcoin/Ethereum is just wrong. You might believe their value is based on a similar concept, pyramid scheme type construct, but they still have massive differences. Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ (even if you ultimately come to the conclusion that that something is bad).

> Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ Big if true.

No post body was provided.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#43

Nice job. Now if only some people would see the difference between an actual ponzi scheme like this one and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. That would be nice.

The fact that cryptocurrencies are even Ponzier than any Ponzi scheme, more pyramidal than any pyramid scheme, much getter, richer, and quicker than any get-rich-quick scheme, and more shaggily carpeted and vigorously jerked than any rug-pull scheme, doesn't mean they're not scams.

Edit: when shills gets called on purposefully missing the point by arguing over semantics, they switch to outright denial and making stuff up. Actually, ethereum and bitcoin ARE both scams, in fact the biggest ones of them all. And that IS the point.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#44

Nice job. Now if only some people would see the difference between an actual ponzi scheme like this one and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. That would be nice.

The common characteristic is that "early adopters" get disproportionately large returns compared to later adopters. Indeed those later adopters are financing the exit of the participants who "got in first". In this way it's like a Ponzi scheme, but the same could be said for stocks.

You might call the above a simplification; that is fine -- my point is that this is a (inaccurate) linguistic shorthand -- calling something by the name of something else which shares a characteristic, but it is inaccurate (a Ponzi scheme has a central organizer / hub), and bitcoin does not.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really fascinating bit isn't that they're currently programmed to think that crypto is doubleplusungood, it's the 180 narrative flip they'll do the second that their chosen media entities tells them to view crypto as doubleplusgood. You're going to see hordes of former crypto detractors rewrite history in their minds and come out with a new viewpoint without an inkling of self-awareness.

I'll ask you the same question I ask everyone who spouts nonsense - when it turns out you're wrong, will you care? Or is possessing this worldview somehow intrinsically satisfying to you, regardless of reality?

1) What exactly would I be wrong about? A good test for cognitive dissonance is comparing your predictions to reality, and I do not believe that I ever stated that BitCoin is inevitably going to become the most important currency in the world. I think crypto is great conceptually (which will never be not true) and that it may or may not succeed in the marketplace. Bitcoin itself may not succeed long-term even if crypto does. I acknowledge all of those things.

2) If crypto "fails", I'd say that the reason for the failure is important in making an assessment. If it fails because the technology is too slow long-term or not enough people choose not to use it for a very long-time, that's one thing that would be harder to argue against. If crypto fails because it's effectively legislated out of existence, that would be hard to see that as anything but a vindication of the concept.

3) For what it's worth, while I consider myself to be a fairly rational person, nobody is absolutely immune to cognitive dissonance. You should constantly check your premises and examine your past predictions. That's part of why I support the absolute right to free speech and debate ideas and play devil's advocate a lot.

4) I stand firm on one prediction. If some government out there decides to use some crypto for their central bank, they're going to have their media pump out support for it, and many former crypto opponents will be reprogrammed on the fly and take on a pro-crypto viewpoint without skipping a beat if they're told to.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#46
post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

The problem is climate change. https://medium.com/humanizing-the-singularity/can-the-world-... Smart contracts are the best shot we have of doing carbon, methane etc. tracking, managing offsetting payments and everything else required to start getting a grip on the CO2 emissions of the consumer economy.

This may well be a troll. I really want to believe that it is because the alternative is too depressing. I have a sinking feeling it isn't a troll however. I see so many Crypto Andys who argue for crypto out of unadulterated gross naivete about how anything outside of a very narrow slice of crypto works.

The obvious problem is that crypto is hugely energy inefficient. Bitcoin in particular consumes a ton of energy with PoW (proof-of-work aka proof-of-waste). Defenders will then point to PoS (proof-of-stake) but that creates a different set of problems (eg the computing power for PoW is part of what keeps the network robust whereas PoS is more like a democracy where you get one vote for every $1 you have).

Carbon trading is never going to happen. It's an idea that's been around for at least 30 years. The only people who are interested in it are those who are invested in it. The only thing that will reduce carbon emissions is the alternatives being cheaper. That's it. Absolutely no one is going to even mildly inconvenience themselves otherwise.

And again, any such ideas suffer from the same problem all crypto does: interfacing with the real world. Like how do you agree on the value of something releasing (or potentially sequestering) carbon (or methane or whatever)? It's up for debate. How do you make sure what someone emits is what they claimed to have?

It's a bit like the ivory traders of Hong Kong who magically have never run out of ivory even though the trade was banned and they're only meant to sell existing stocks.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#47
post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

The problem is climate change. https://medium.com/humanizing-the-singularity/can-the-world-... Smart contracts are the best shot we have of doing carbon, methane etc. tracking, managing offsetting payments and everything else required to start getting a grip on the CO2 emissions of the consumer economy.

cryptocurrency saving us from climate crisis! no one saw that one coming

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me one cryptocurrency that has driven real world industry more than financial speculation and scamming.

Monero because its untraceable(real world industry - underground drug markets) IRS wants to crack it and awarded $1.25 million contract: https://cointelegraph.com/news/chainalysis-and-texas-firm-wi...

This doesn't really shift my priors that the only practical use of crypto is illegal transactions.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#49
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very sympathetic with many of the "anti"-crypto arguments but to say there is no difference between BitConnect and Bitcoin/Ethereum is just wrong. You might believe their value is based on a similar concept, pyramid scheme type construct, but they still have massive differences. Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ (even if you ultimately come to the conclusion that that something is bad).

> Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ Big if true.

You might think that the "something" "legit" crypto does isn't a good solution even though it IS doing "something". Bitcoin works as a distributed ledger, depending on your view that might be a solution in search if a problem but it's still something.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#50
post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

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Yes, we have reviewed the white purple yellow paper that's 9 inches thick. It was mostly just cat memes.
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