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Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

reuters.com

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Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#261

Post by jacquesm »

mardifoufs wrote: post #259
jacquesm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a few hundred people at best. Anyway, I can see that you believe strongly that protests don't work, I've been eyewitness to protests that did work and that changed the direction of a country (in fact, multiple countries) in a massive way. Those instances are rare, but that's an existence proof that you can't deny (and there are, historically, more examples). Note that the support for those Canadian protests…

I'd assume support for those anti war protests in a time of war is probably lower than the support for the truckers in canada (which wasn't that low, 30-40% of the population). Does that make anti war protests in russia illegitimate ? Especially since appearing to undermine a war effort is usually universally despised once a war starts. Even the iraq war started with 90% of americans rallying behind bush and supporte…

> Does that make anti war protests in russia illegitimate ?

According to the Russian authorities, yes. According to me: those people are real heroes, right now it is far more dangerous to join such protests than when the numbers are higher, especially in places like Russia.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#262

Post by NikolaNovak »

int_19h wrote: post #256
NikolaNovak wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statement (about sanctions being a message or behaviour modifier) is no more of an oversimplification than yours (about populace not being in charge / not being able to modify their country's behaviour) At any rate, if we want to engage in a productive discussion, let us enumerate alternatives and rank them. I'll start * Sanctions * Military Engagement * Assassination * Covert policy, government, elections influen…

It's not that the sanctions don't drive change fast enough - it's that they don't drive them, period. The only effective counter to Russia right now is direct military aid to Ukraine. But the rest of the world has chosen to re-enact 1938 all over again.

Many countries, including Canada, are sending military equipment or financial support to Ukraine. Its not an either / or proposition.

If however by direct military aid you mean soldiers on the ground fighting Russians, then a) I agree that would be more effective and b) I think it's unlikely to happen because c) if we engage in second order thinking, I don't see how it ends well for anyone in the short term. That's the problem with a Bully, they don't care about their own pain as much as other guys care about theirs. Once they start hitting, there are no great options. All options from here on suck.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#263

Post by slt2021 »

gutitout wrote: post #235
paulryanrogers wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how the USA / EU policies have put the Ukrainian people in incredible danger for their own political motive. Please excuse my ignorance but how did the US and EU put the UA people in danger?

I want to preface this by saying that I 100% disagree with the war in Ukraine and the Russian infiltration and my heart goes out to the Ukrainian people. Also, please feel free to correct me or argue these points! A few ways: 1. NATO is largely an anti-Russian coalition. With many of its boarder neighboring countries being part of it. You can google the map and you will see the strategic position of those countries.…

Maybe Putin's Russia should not exist in its current form?

Russian people are infested and brain washed with decades of propaganda. I hope this war and sanctions will cripple the country back into 1990s and Russian state cease to exist in its current form, regime, and borders.

Russia is seriously sick and must rid itself from Putin first

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#264

Post by eloff »

FpUser wrote: post #163
slashdev wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil is a pretty strong word to toss around like that. The Nazis were evil. How is the West evil? Western countries do a number of bad things, but they're not evil.

>"How is the West evil?" Killing millions of people after WWII for sure qualifies. What else would you call it?

Huh? Explain

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#265

Post by tsol »

jacquesm wrote: post #218
sneak wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian people who protested the war are now in prison, arrested for an illegal/unpermitted assembly. Sanctions are cruel and ineffective.

> Sanctions are cruel and ineffective. You know what's cruel? War is cruel.

This no nonsense attitude never gets applied to western countries though. Droning weddings is cruel. Yet no one blames that on American citizens

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#266

Post by tanyatik »

988747 wrote: post #107
the_af wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand lies by omission. But in this case we are being suspicious of alleged Russian teenagers saying they don't hate Ukraine but feel powerless to condition their own government in Russia. I mean, that's almost an anti-Putin statement, how can it be misconstrued as pro-Putin psyops?

Well, for one it creates an impression that "common people" of Russia are against Putin (which is false, he regularly gets 70+ percent approval ratings [1]), and this might discourage more severe economic sanctions against Russia (because sanctions would affect those "common people" more than they would affect oligarchs) [ https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra... ]

I don’t understand this logic. How is it in interest of the propaganda machine to make it appear that common people are against Putin? Surely they want to portray that majority like him and support his actions (which is also why they manipulate these stats you linked).

Also, Putin and his elite don’t actually give a damn about sanctions affecting “common people” (see eg post-Crimea sanctions), so I don’t see why they’d worry so much about it as to fabricate every single post on Reddit.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#267

Post by tanyatik »

TameAntelope wrote: post #31
the_af wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "see look, the Russian people don't approve of this! Don't punish them with sanctions!" But there have already been demonstrations against this war in Russia, with detainees and video footage showing this. And if you don't trust the footage, I'm sure someone knows someone in Russia who can attest to this. So we know at least some people in Russia don't support the invasion. More importantly, in my opinion: that kin…

I A) said I was probably paranoid and B) I didn't say they were lying, I said I assume they are. I'm describing an effective heuristic to help me accurately predict the future. I believe using data from Reddit users purporting to be Russian teenagers seems too easy to exploit and therefore unhelpful, predictively.

> I'm describing an effective heuristic to help me accurately predict the future.

Accurately predict the future, huh? Are you a fortune teller?

What you’re describing is nothing more than a hurtful bias, and please call it as such.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#268

Post by ivan_gammel »

jacquesm wrote: post #221
ivan_gammel wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it’s just scary. Let’s hope Ukraine will be able to resist long enough to force Putin to negotiate peace and to forget about any attempt to reach his goals along the Western borders of Russia by military means. It’s too bad that our hope is that enough Russian soldiers will die for Russian public to notice that war is in their house. There’s no popular support for the war, but the pain of war is not yet felt. Unf…

> Now it’s just scary. And getting worse. > Let’s hope Ukraine will be able to resist long enough to force Putin to negotiate peace and to forget about any attempt to reach his goals along the Western borders of Russia by military means. I hope with you but the force asymmetry is large. But so far they have been doing much better than could have reasonably been expected. > It’s too bad that our hope is that enough Ru…

>I hope with you but the force asymmetry is large. But so far they have been doing much better than could have reasonably been expected.

It is not that large. I remember an estimate of some strategist that you need 5x more firepower to win a battle in urban environment (cannot find the link, sorry). Even if Russia sends 20-30% of its entire army and national guard to Ukraine, this would mean only a parity with highly motivated defenders. Russia certainly has better equipment and air support, but it may still take a lot of time and casualties will be high.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#269

Post by int_19h »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #262
int_19h wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that the sanctions don't drive change fast enough - it's that they don't drive them, period. The only effective counter to Russia right now is direct military aid to Ukraine. But the rest of the world has chosen to re-enact 1938 all over again.

Many countries, including Canada, are sending military equipment or financial support to Ukraine. Its not an either / or proposition. If however by direct military aid you mean soldiers on the ground fighting Russians, then a) I agree that would be more effective and b) I think it's unlikely to happen because c) if we engage in second order thinking, I don't see how it ends well for anyone in the short term. That's t…

Once the bully starts hitting, the only option that actually solves the problem long term is everybody hitting back.

Because you'll end up fighting the bully anyway sooner or later. But if it's later, there will be fewer left standing by your side.

Re: Russia to restrict Facebook access for 'censoring' its media

#270

Post by MrYellowP »

eloff wrote: post #264
FpUser wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"How is the West evil?" Killing millions of people after WWII for sure qualifies. What else would you call it?

Huh? Explain

What do you need explained?

Have you forgotten all the wars the US put themselves into over and over again, often based on lies?

Have you forgotten what the CIA did, and still does, to countries all over the world?

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