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Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

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Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#51

Post by majormajor »

cdiddy2 wrote: post #35
UncleMeat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Degradation of food? Housing? Do you know what people ate when Bach was alive? Or in what conditions most people lived?

Well we are approaching half of americans having a chronic disease and a large part of that is from what we eat along with lack of exercise. it does seem like we have a degradation of the nutrients in our food supply as well. https://www.fightchronicdisease.org/sites/default/files/docs... https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/vanishing-...

"Times were better when we didn't have enough to eat, curse this surplus and our lack of self control!"

Strange to see such paternalism about people making unhealthy dietary choices from a crowd I mostly associate with libertarian thinking.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#52

Post by Animats »

once_inc wrote: post #25
Animats wrote: post #21

That's a great read. What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenu…

There are actually quite a few companies doing things with bitcoin that generate revenue. Bitcoin isn't supposed to make you money; it's supposed to be money. Dollars on their own don't generate revenue, nor is gold locked in a safe. Bitcoin has qualities that make it better than fiat and better than gold, at the cost of an established history. Perhaps the author just spoke to the wrong people, didn't get the fundame…

Well, let's see what was pitched at that conference. There's a list.[1]

- 24 Exchange Bermuda Ltd. - cryptocurrency exchange

- 5 Day Forecast - can't identify, name too widely used

- Bitex - cryptocurrency exchange in UAE.

- Bitmatrix - "High Risk Merchant Account Solution"

- Citizens of Bitcoin - "Global Mobility Assets for Bitcoin Hodlers"

- D2X Group - "The pan-European digital derivatives exchange."

- DIBA Global Inc - "The future of Digital Art building on #Bitcoin."

- Liquid Ventures - hydroelectric powered Bitcoin mining

- Moon - probably "Moon Bitcoin", a Bitcoin faucet app

- Satoshi’s Games - "integrate blockchain-based play-to-earn economies into ... games"

- Sazmining - crypto mining

- Shock Network, Inc. - ambiguious, but possibly "Shock Wallet", a hosted crypto wallet

So, not one of the companies pitched at the conference described in the article operates outside the crypto bubble.

[1] https://b.tc/conference/pitch-day

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#53

Post by oriolid »

MR4D wrote: post #4

This is interesting... The linked article is titled "Cryptonomicon", and written by Will Stephenson, and a book with the same title was written by Neal Stephenson. Yet, no mention of Neal or his book in the article. So I wonder where he got the word for his title?

With all recent Metaverse stuff, it seems that Neal Stephenson is public domain now. So many things on the Internet are based on Snow Crash and Diamond Age that maybe it's time to move to different book now.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#54

Post by wrycoder »

kragen wrote: post #43
Animats wrote: post #21

That's a great read. What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenu…

As it turns out, moving money from one group to another† is pretty useful in modern society. It's really all that money is good for, after all. Some of my comments from the last week and a half about what Bitcoin is good for: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30469595 when your country's central bank suspends electronic cash transfers, suspends the foreign exchange market, limits cash withdrawals, and prohibits th…

But, isn't standard Bitcoin completely traceable, once you move funds out of your wallet to fiat? Can't they track you down retroactively after you make that one transaction?

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#55

Post by wrycoder »

SilasX wrote: post #7
danielvaughn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? I went in thinking it was about the book because it's been on my to-read list for a while.

Hah, yeah, I was going to say, if this went to court, it would feel like a slam dunk case of trademark infringement or IP of some kind, due to consumer[1] confusion. [1] term of art in this context, not what I'd prefer they use.

I don't believe you can copyright titles.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#56

Post by kragen »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #50
kragen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turns out, moving money from one group to another† is pretty useful in modern society. It's really all that money is good for, after all. Some of my comments from the last week and a half about what Bitcoin is good for: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30469595 when your country's central bank suspends electronic cash transfers, suspends the foreign exchange market, limits cash withdrawals, and prohibits th…

But can you do it without going to jail when sanctions or similar are in place against you? Technically, you can, but you face the same consequences if you were able to get a wire or SEPA transaction through. That's the point. The tech doesn't change the policy or the law. You still go to jail or your country gets shelled. Miners get chased out of countries. Russia is reportedly exploring crypto for transfers if they…

Generally when "[economic] sanctions or similar are in place against you" it's because the people who imposed the sanctions are physically unable to jail you. Or beat you with a wrench.

The tech doesn't change the policy or the law, but it does change their consequences in the real world. Fortunately it is not yet the case that the US shells every country whose citizens do business with entities it imposes sanctions on, although the US does shell a lot of countries, and it can be challenging to identify even which country a Bitcoin transaction originates from.

What's your source for "Russia is exploring crypto for transfers if they get knocked off of SWIFT"? I assume you mean cryptocurrencies of some kind, because obviously SWIFT, СПФС, and CIPS all use cryptography, so that would be too obvious to mention. Right now I think Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with enough trading volume to handle Russia's foreign exchange needs; I don't think that's likely to happen in the next two years, though, if it ever happens at all.

If it did happen, though, it would put an end to the concerns that Bitcoin could collapse at any moment like a Ponzi scheme.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#57

Post by perardi »

seibelj wrote: post #8

> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ an…

There are just…I can’t even start with the sheer inanity of that quote.

First off, the First World War happened on the gold standard. Most currencies, notably the British Pound, didn’t become decoupled from gold until after WW1.

And those World Wars were enabled by technology, not fiat currency. Mass production of weaponry, rapid advancements in said weaponry, trains, fertilizer to grow more food to supply those front line…technology was far more of a driver than fractional reserve banking.

And decadence? Decadence! The Sun King would like to have a word with you about “decadence”.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

kragen wrote: post #56
toomuchtodo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you do it without going to jail when sanctions or similar are in place against you? Technically, you can, but you face the same consequences if you were able to get a wire or SEPA transaction through. That's the point. The tech doesn't change the policy or the law. You still go to jail or your country gets shelled. Miners get chased out of countries. Russia is reportedly exploring crypto for transfers if they…

Generally when "[economic] sanctions or similar are in place against you" it's because the people who imposed the sanctions are physically unable to jail you. Or beat you with a wrench. The tech doesn't change the policy or the law, but it does change their consequences in the real world. Fortunately it is not yet the case that the US shells every country whose citizens do business with entities it imposes sanctions…

> What's your source for "Russia is exploring crypto for transfers if they get knocked off of SWIFT"? I assume you mean cryptocurrencies of some kind, because obviously SWIFT, СПФС, and CIPS all use cryptography, so that would be too obvious to mention. Right now I think Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with enough trading volume to handle Russia's foreign exchange needs.

EDIT: If you're looking for a press release from the Kremlin, no, I'm unlikely to be able to get something official from Vlad, only public news sources.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/business/russia-sanctions...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/russia-bi...

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-could-bypass-president...

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#59

Post by kragen »

wrycoder wrote: post #54
kragen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turns out, moving money from one group to another† is pretty useful in modern society. It's really all that money is good for, after all. Some of my comments from the last week and a half about what Bitcoin is good for: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30469595 when your country's central bank suspends electronic cash transfers, suspends the foreign exchange market, limits cash withdrawals, and prohibits th…

But, isn't standard Bitcoin completely traceable, once you move funds out of your wallet to fiat? Can't they track you down retroactively after you make that one transaction?

Tracking you down retroactively is very different from freezing your bank account so you miss your rent payment. Also, generally, no, fiat-currency cash transactions are not completely traceable, and in practice there doesn't seem to be a Bitcoin-oriented equivalent of https://cdn.occrp.org/projects/suisse-secrets-interactive/, at any rate not yet.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#60

Post by kragen »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
kragen wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally when "[economic] sanctions or similar are in place against you" it's because the people who imposed the sanctions are physically unable to jail you. Or beat you with a wrench. The tech doesn't change the policy or the law, but it does change their consequences in the real world. Fortunately it is not yet the case that the US shells every country whose citizens do business with entities it imposes sanctions…

> What's your source for "Russia is exploring crypto for transfers if they get knocked off of SWIFT"? I assume you mean cryptocurrencies of some kind, because obviously SWIFT, СПФС, and CIPS all use cryptography, so that would be too obvious to mention. Right now I think Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency with enough trading volume to handle Russia's foreign exchange needs. EDIT: If you're looking for a press release…

None of these substantiate the claim that "Russia is exploring crypto for transfers"; they just point out, as I did above, that people outside Russia say Russians could hypothetically use cryptocurrencies for transfers despite US sanctions. None of them even propose that the Russian government use cryptocurrencies for its own foreign trade, and none of them claim to have any Russian sources at all, whether officials or leaks or civilians. The Cointelegraph article claims that Maduro proposed doing this in the past (for Venezuela) and that Iranians raising money for flood relief have actually done so.
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