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Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

harpers.org

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Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#21

Post by Animats »

That's a great read.

What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenue. All it can really do is move money from one group to another.

The world changed this week. Things just got real. Russia is taking over a big chunk of eastern Europe by force. That's what real authoritarianism looks like. Not mask mandates. Over the next few months, the tolerance for bullshit, especially in politics, will go way down.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#22

Post by UncleMeat »

seibelj wrote: post #14
burnoutgal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, classic fascist rhetoric. It's not surprising they point to a woman being independent and expressing her sexuality as the example of "degenerate culture". The "other" (people of colour, women, queers) are producing art that represents our own experiences, which is a threat to their desired white hetero-patriarchal order. Never mind that Mozart wrote a ton of filthy shit. People have been obsessed with sex foreve…

I think the comment about the music is ridiculous, but the broader point about free money causing the gradual degradation of food, housing, standard of living, etc. is not without merit.

Degradation of food? Housing? Do you know what people ate when Bach was alive? Or in what conditions most people lived?

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#23

Post by Melio »

seibelj wrote: post #8

> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ an…

It's not just 100 years old.

It's over 1000 years old and it evolved from nothing to what we have.

It's very weird that you ignore history like this.

You should read up on Spain, silver, gold, china and tons of other history regarding tender.

What we have with fiat is your very well working monolith fine tuned over centuries while everyone who wants to make money of of you tells you why their Nanoservice with security holes and no features is so much better.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#24

Post by shralpmeister »

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #18
shralpmeister wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just me or does that read like a far-right, Christian, white supremacist screed?

To those of us who are far-right, Christian, and have noticed the lack of distinction that seems to be applied between say, David Duke, and Chris Rufo, this is not the takedown-by-association you seem to think it is.

It was not intended as a take down. Thanks for clarifying.

It's becoming clearer that Bitcoin is the "currency" of the far right. For those of us who consider this ideology abhorrent and counter to the ideals of a free and democratic society it's good to have that out on the table and on full display.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#25

Post by once_inc »

Animats wrote: post #21

That's a great read. What's striking, in his description of the conference, is the total lack of any connection to real world activity. None of these people seem to be trying to get enough Bitcoin together to build a steel mill or a wafer fab or a smartphone factory or, indeed, any kind of startup that does something. Bitcoin is expected to somehow generate wealth without actually doing anything that generates revenu…

There are actually quite a few companies doing things with bitcoin that generate revenue. Bitcoin isn't supposed to make you money; it's supposed to be money. Dollars on their own don't generate revenue, nor is gold locked in a safe. Bitcoin has qualities that make it better than fiat and better than gold, at the cost of an established history.

Perhaps the author just spoke to the wrong people, didn't get the fundamentals, or didn't ask fundamental questions.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#26

Post by skulk »

rvz wrote: post #15
shralpmeister wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just me or does that read like a far-right, Christian, white supremacist screed?

Maybe if you have been chasing or watching imaginary nazis in computer games, movies and on the 'news' in the last four years perhaps? If a claim is without any evidence and has no substance, it can be easily dismissed and ignored. Not every silly, baseless conspiracy theory has an immediate association with the 'far-right' or with 'Christian, white supremacists' and especially not this one. As long as they have zero…

This quote:

> He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ and “immediate sensory pleasures.’’

Does seem a lot like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#28

Post by nmhancoc »

seibelj wrote: post #8

> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ an…

I think the phenomenon you're observing is that the quote observes a true correlation, coincidence, or relation, but "sounds crazy" because the implication it draws is _very_ strong relative to what can probably be evidenced.

In other words, it _is_ the case that Renaissance works were financed with harder money than works today. That's a historical matter of fact. It _is_ the case that families are breaking down or that nutrient levels in produce (per unit size) have decreased. It's also the case that those events were coincident with a change of greater adoption of fiat currency vs hard currency (and I'd put it on a spectrum because of fractional reserve banking and other items which made the Gold standard dollars not _really_ redeemable in Gold and etc).

With all that said, the "sounds crazy" comes in because it's totally unsubstantiated in the quote (and probably otherwise) that just because these things occurred together the change in the status of money is the primary driver behind the other changes.

Edit: For example, if the change in money is the primary driver, then it is the case that the massive technology shifts we've seen aren't the primary driver. Nitrogen based fertilizers aren't the primary driver. Various civil rights movements aren't the primary driver. The presence of global travel, the formation of a global village, the new ability to communicate, none of these are the primary drivers.

And the more you lean on fiat money being the explainer, the less you allow all these other things to contribute to the explanation. That case becomes harder and harder to support, I think.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#29

Post by cuteboy19 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #22
seibelj wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comment about the music is ridiculous, but the broader point about free money causing the gradual degradation of food, housing, standard of living, etc. is not without merit.

Degradation of food? Housing? Do you know what people ate when Bach was alive? Or in what conditions most people lived?

It doesn't matter. Facts don't matter if you have spent significant amount of your life savings into magic internet money. Any news is contructed into 'this is good for bitcoin'. Even history itself is malleable, everything can be blamed on fiat (even though Bitcoin itself is fiat).

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#30

Post by davidgerard »

seibelj wrote: post #14
burnoutgal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, classic fascist rhetoric. It's not surprising they point to a woman being independent and expressing her sexuality as the example of "degenerate culture". The "other" (people of colour, women, queers) are producing art that represents our own experiences, which is a threat to their desired white hetero-patriarchal order. Never mind that Mozart wrote a ton of filthy shit. People have been obsessed with sex foreve…

I think the comment about the music is ridiculous, but the broader point about free money causing the gradual degradation of food, housing, standard of living, etc. is not without merit.

This is ridiculously, hilariously false. If you don't think so, please detail the precise degradations, with numbers.
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