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Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

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Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#11

It's like Russia was expecting to be able to conduct the largest aggressive conventional military operation in Europe since WW2 and not completely flip the apple cart of the global order.

In terms of troops and materiel deployed in the first few days, how does this compare to (either) Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or Korea?

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#12
Good, let them join. This whole cat and mouse game of petty escalations won't end with Putin on one side. This only ends with Putin dead or in prison. Let Finland and Sweden join NATO, grant Ukraine membership in NATO while we're at it. Our best chance at fighting Russia under Putin is to escalate to 100% all at once. He's betting that we'll go full Neville Chamberlain, and we can't give him that luxury.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#13
For those wondering why Sweden is included in this threat despite not sharing a border with Russia, Finland and Sweden are like best friends and have been approaching anything regarding NATO and Russia as a unit together. Sweden joining NATO pretty much automatically means Finland also intends to join NATO.

Anyway, this threat loses a lot of teeth when the reason Ukraine is getting destroyed at the moment is because they are not in NATO.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#14
post #8

At this point is there anything substantive any country could do at all that wouldn't irritate Russia? It seems as if the powers that be have become so utterly delicate that even something as innocuous as Sweden joining NATO is deemed to be advancing far beyond the "proper" limits.

Abusive partners are rarely satisfied, and giving in to their demands rarely appeases for long. The same is true in international politics.

If NATO's response isn't "we do what we want, fuck off" they've lost the next war already.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#15

Now is probably the only opportunity they will get. With much of Russia's army tied up in Ukraine they could join in secret overnight and in the morning the rest of NATO could land huge numbers of airborne reinforcements and the whole thing would be a fait accompli. The only response Putin could make would be to trigger WW3.

Making triggering WW3 his only remaining choice does not sound like a good idea

When do the billionaires backing him decide they don't want to rule over a nuclear wasteland? Can they even stop him?

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#16
post #9

Well then, Congratulations Russia! You have just given the Swedish NATO-movement more support than they could have ever mustered themselves! I have always been very sceptical of NATO membership, but the last month I changed opinion.

Why were you skeptical of NATO membership? What are the downsides?

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#17

It's like Russia was expecting to be able to conduct the largest aggressive conventional military operation in Europe since WW2 and not completely flip the apple cart of the global order.

This is all part of the plan. If you run around lighting a dozen tiny fires around the house, even the best firefighting efforts might miss one of them before it becomes an inferno. Russian strategy, time and time again, has been to sow chaos. They don't have the might, economy, or means to expand beyond their own sandbox, so they get by throwing sand at passersby. It's death by a thousand paper cuts; worldwide guerilla warfare in the economy, societal, and minds of their enemies.

TLDR; they're fucking with our collective heads.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#18
post #6

It's like Russia was expecting to be able to conduct the largest aggressive conventional military operation in Europe since WW2 and not completely flip the apple cart of the global order.

It's starting to look like Putin may have miscalculated here.

Yeah, I bet they didn't count on losing the Champions League final. That's about the worst of impact so far.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#19
post #16
post #9

Well then, Congratulations Russia! You have just given the Swedish NATO-movement more support than they could have ever mustered themselves! I have always been very sceptical of NATO membership, but the last month I changed opinion.

Why were you skeptical of NATO membership? What are the downsides?

The major downside is that Russia might invade you if you make noises about joining. See: Georgia, Ukraine, Finlandization.

... That card's been played out, though, because it's only credible if you don't invade regardless.

Practically speaking, Russia wouldn't be able to do anything about this.

Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns

#20
post #3

"We'll invade you if you join NATO" loses its power a bit when you invade people who haven't joined NATO.

Even worse, when you invade someone who tried to join NATO, was given the same warning, didn't join NATO, and then was invaded anyway.

Finland and Sweden should join now while Russia doesn't have the ability to invade (because their forces are busy in Ukraine).

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