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Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

reuters.com

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Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#511

Post by vkou »

belter wrote: post #494
Loughla wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An attack on any NATO member requires a response by NATO. I am not, even slightly, sure that this is the case anymore. Economic sanctions is as far as anyone is willing to go anymore it seems - and half-assed ones at that. I absolutely cannot see the US, England, or any other NATO countries sending people to die in Latvia. There just is zero stomach for that in most of the world. And people like Putin know that, is…

That is exactly why the situation is so dangerous. If there is even a hint that the US and the whole of NATO will not come in strong, then yes there is the possibility that he could go further. There is another very dangerous scenario that has not been considered. A Russian inspired coup in one of the existing NATO countries with a not so small large Russian speaking population. That government then saying they want…

> On another side, it's not even mentioned that in the middle of the war action in Ukraine, nobody seems to have noticed Putin just annexed another country, Byelorussia. The Russian troops were supposed to leave at the end of their 3 week long exercises, but they are now leaving...never.

Belorussia has been a Russian puppet since the collapse of the USSR, nobody's noticed it because nothing has changed.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#512

Post by trymas »

verisimi wrote: post #416
trymas wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are incorrect on so many levels - I have no idea where to begin. Ukraine is a sovereign state independent from russia. russia dreams about soviet union comeback. Some countries are out of reach now, e.g. Baltic states which became EU and NATO members. After russians being assholes to their neighbours for decades (if not centuries) - some neighbours decided that it's time to leave abusive relationship. To russia U…

Hmm.. I think you're stuck in the idea that there are good and bad actors, that this stuff isn't propaganda, that it's not just about power, all of it bad... I'm sure if you're in Russia the exact opposite arguments are being made, and make sense to their citizens. My point really is that - to an outsider with no dog in the race - if you take a long view, it seems equivalent to the US civil war. What you just said, c…

your comparison is just wrong.

Ukraine is an independent sovereign nation _de facto_ and _de jure_, recognized by probably every single country in the world including the aggressor russia to.

Why you thing I have "a dog in this race"? It's just old-school war, russia does not know how to use it's soft diplomatic power. It's threats all the time, and when Ukraine does not give up on idea to westernise for at least 8 years - russia treat is a threat - thus they invade.

If I'd compare - I'd compare it to Winter War. When WW2 started - they saw that Finland is too close to St.Peterbug for russias comfort - thus they started the war. Same here - Ukraine wants to free themselves from post-soviet economy and modernise to western model, it's a threat to putin - because then the "western" economical and political borders will be too close for his comfort.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#513

Post by Merem »

purple_ferret wrote: post #452
jl6 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, how much defensive value does this have for Ukraine? DDOSing Russian news websites just allows them to cry victim - “look, they don’t want you to hear the truth!”. Disrupting the Russian internet in general also harms any anti-war protesters trying to organize.

Russian 'news' is claiming Ukrainian Nazis are massacring ethnic Russians. They don't need a legitimate excuse. Anyway, most Russians probably thought this was all bluster by the West and Russia wasn't going in. They need to know they're engaged in an actual war.

I mean, do you deny that the Ukrainian army has been shelling civilians in the separatist regions? A fellow countryman moved there since no one of the press bothered to report over the years and she confirmed it. And even apart from that, it's not like reports from the OSCE and UN aren't available. Furthermore, considering that the Ukrainian government enacted language and racial laws (can be easily looked up) and employs right-wing extremist military groups like the Azov Battalion as National Guard...it should give you something to think about. But well, most just blindly consume US(-controlled) media without doing some basic fact-checking even, let alone engage in critical thinking.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#514

Post by cloverich »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #384
Aeolun wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like there won't be a Ukrainian government to speak of in a few days. I don’t see why this would be true. The legitimate government doesn’t have to be in kiev to coordinate the defense of the country.

But an illegitimate government can be installed fairly easily in Kiev instead.

And the legitimate government can operate in exile, ready to return if it becomes viable. Inusrgents fighting on their behalf could coordinate with them. I'm very out of my depth but it seems like this must be a common scenario, particularly when the displaced government is legitimate.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#515

Post by nopenopenopeno »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #372
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is effectively no different than donating money to the United States military. I can hardly imagine a more ridiculous thing to do with money.

> no different than donating money to the United States military Which Americans did. In World War II. With donations, war bonds and by accepting massive sacrifices to their quality of life through rations, price controls and more. We did this when we felt threatened. Last I checked, the Canadians weren’t rolling tanks into Syracuse.

This is precisely the delusion that makes America such an insane global actor. Get over yourself! The Nazis lost! The USSR won the war! Move on!

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#516

Post by Chris2048 »

belter wrote: post #427
Chris2048 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't. Also, could you respond in full e.g. "Flynn was pardoned by Trump, meaning that..." so I don't have to guess what you mean. EDIT: ok it was done, thanks. Although I'd add he was caught not disclosing talking to an ambassador (he is afaik allowed to do so), and then accused of lying about it to the FBI . Per my post, there was a lot of politicking in that incitement that by itself would have justified the pa…

What politicking there is, on a active and retired US military travelling to Russian since 2013, having high level contacts with the Russian government, and then lying about it, to its own country Law enforcement? https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1015126/download

Again, these characterisations are easy. They are made on both sides. I can construct a similar line about the FBI incitement, casually throwing in disputed or hard-to-verify facts.

I'd pick you up on "lying about it" - I consider the FBI to be heavily politically active, esp in the Trump/Comey times, so describing them as "law enforcement" in these situations is misleading.

I added detail to my previous comment, but I don't really trust the outcome of an incitement where the FBI held all the cards - you get the same thing when people accept one-sided plea deals from the police - "they even admitted they did it".

There's a whole lot of context around this. For example, you can characterise the FBI as simply "Law enforcement", but you could characterise the DOJ-under-Barr the same. If you have reason to doubt/discredit the DOJ, them you should equally allow for the same wrt the FBI-under-Comey.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#517

Post by oneoff786 »

throwrqX wrote: post #507
oneoff786 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of countries with active genocidal events going on right now. Should we invade all of them?

Well in a perfect world yes we would. However the world is not perfect, and most "white" people so to speak care more about white people than some Muslims in the Middle East or some Africans in Africa, that's just the reality of the situation. Hence why they're more interested in what goes on in European countries than in other ones.

So we go in, kill everyone doing the genocide, leave, and then another group takes power and starts doing more genocide.

Do we do it again?

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#518

Post by HWR_14 »

oblio wrote: post #216
HWR_14 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, there's a lot. For one, Putin seems to want to reassemble the USSR as a vanity project. Further, this all started (years ago) when the Ukrainians removed out their Moscow friendly president. Putin doesn't like reminders that months of sustained protests can really effect change and remove leaders, especially so close to Russia. Crimea is the only "warm water" port that Russia has access to to gain access for the…

> Crimea is the only "warm water" port that Russia has access to to gain access for the end and the Atlantic. This is bullshit propaganda, sorry. Russia has over 1000km of coast at the Black Sea, to the East of Crimea.

Turns out I was pretty wrong about that. I thought Novorosiisk was in Crimea. Sorry to spread misinformation.

I will say, even if it were true, that wouldn't justify what Russia is doing. But I can see how it would be useful for domestic consumption.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#519

Post by graphpercolator »

wowokay wrote: post #454
MarcellusDrum wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "the free world" rubs me the wrong way. I'm obviously against what Russia is doing, any sane man would be. But as a middle eastern, the US to us has been 10x worse than Russia: They killed a million Iraqis, they killed Syrian civilians by bombing hospitals and schools. They overthrew a functional government in Libya, and they supported Syrian/Iraqi separatists (Kurds). They forcefully tried to build a mili…

Yes but at least the US had probable cause to go into Iraq. The world was pretty much behind that decision. We were attacked, civilians were attacked directly, none of that conflict would have occurred if Iraq or neighboring countries stopped their terrorism.

I would question if you were alive at the time then because the world basically thought our evidence was bullshit to go into Iraq but we went in anyway and the evidence turned out to be bullshit.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#520

Post by dhimes »

mvc wrote: post #488
avgcorrection wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please forgive those of us who where tricked into it, too young to vote etc. Then you blame the voters of America when their government started an illegal war based on falsehoods.

Yes, UK and US foreign policy has been, and in many places around the world, is currently, ethically, morally questionable. As a UK citizen, of voting age for 20 years now, I'm guilty as charged. I voted for Blair before the Iraq war, but like many others protested on our streets in the build up (and I haven't voted for them since). Doesn't make us wrong about Putin though.

I'm right there with you. I voted for Bush in 2000 based on his education platform; when it was clear the war was a major mistake that he wouldn't admit to, I tried to vote him out in 2004.
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