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On the removal of Come Back Alive

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Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#81

Post by saiya-jin »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12
tgv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's self-defense. Or is that bad too?

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

On paper with raw soldier numbers you may be right, but look at the map, and check once again how many troops russians deployed. Its not possible to really conquer country so vast with so few soldiers. Maybe 5x more, maybe 10x. Not if civilians are armed, full of hate and can actually shoot their guns and plan diversions effectively.

Yes they can bomb the bases and airports, capture few important points, but if population offers resistance in form of guerilla warfare, russians will bleed and will bleed hard and achieve nothing. Not that russian oligarchs like Putin ever cared about casualties even on their side.

I am not claiming its the best approach overall, maybe even the worst in terms of casualties. But there is something in human nature that reacts wildly when oppression comes and freedoms are being taken. Americans should understand this very well.

I personally think his game is just to install pro-russian government forever and few military bases and withdraw most of the army. Something like second Belarus. Look at the map - he will have 500km wall from rest of Europe. Now the billion $ question is, what he thinks about baltic states, since they are part of Nato.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#83

Post by glogla »

brabel wrote: post #49
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

That's all I can think of... I just don't see an outcome where Ukraine receives so much support from the West that it will manage to beat Russia and make it go home without accomplishing any of its goals.... people seem to think that's a possible outcome. I wonder why when Kiev seems to already be surrounded and the USA government (who was right about warning about an imminent invasion!) has already said (correct me…

I'm sure you'd also tell someone being raped to not defend themselves so it's over faster?

Jesus Christ, how do you people get so callous? What is wrong with you? who hurt you? What made you give up empathy and humanity?

I'll never understand you people.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#84

Post by TehCorwiz »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #20
piokoch wrote: post #15

It is incredible how easy it is for Russia to spread their misinformation about their invasion on Ukraine without any bans or blockades, I have been reporting multiple times accounts that were clearly created by trolls to spread FUD and none of them "was breaking community standards". On the other hand perfectly factual posts are regularly deleted from groups that track situation on Ukraine and do this in a honest wa…

What community are you talking about - Patreon? In general, social networks should not be in the business of filtering fake news.

And blood shouldn’t be involved in filtering out bacteria and viruses.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#85

Post by newaccount2021 »

redwood wrote: post #40
breakfastduck wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I wouldn't have stopped this myself, I think its perfectly reasonable for a crowdfunding website to not want to host campaigns used to purchase military grade weaponry.

Freedom. What is being defended here is the right to have a website like this at all. The west has a long way to go to wake up to what's at stake here.

No post body was provided.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#87

Post by Sebb767 »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
Sebb767 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, from their point of view, a military pact with the explicit goal of keeping them under control has first taken their land and is now threatening to get even closer to their border and encircle them. Just take a look at the Cuban missile crisis to see how the US reacted in a comparable situation and in that case, the distance from the missiles to the capital was a lot longer. For Russia, this is more like the mi…

> Everyone thinks they're on the right side. In this case that has been made pretty easy to see. Even large numbers of Russians agree with that. > Now, obviously I think we (as in EU+US) are the good guys here, but it's quite clear that a lot of people were both very convinced and very wrong about this and I don't consider us unfailable. Indeed. But this isn't the Cuban missile crisis (which was provoked by the USSR…

> In this case that has been made pretty easy to see. Even large numbers of Russians agree with that.

Just as large numbers of US citizens disagreed with the wars of the last decades.

> Indeed. But this isn't the Cuban missile crisis (which was provoked by the USSR to begin with) and the Ukraine isn't anything like Cuba.

Well, you could argue that the EU/NATO expansion did provoke this, too.

But I'm getting distracted here; I really don't want to defend Russia and especially not their recent actions. I also don't think that helping the Ukraine is a bad thing, quite the opposite actually. My point is that you don't get to both condone violence and keep your status as "peaceful" because it's against the right people. If German history has taught me anything, it's that accepting violence as right leads down a very bad path quickly. It might sometimes be necessary, but it's never "not bad".

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#88

Post by lawn »

cdot2 wrote: post #5

So essentially the problem is they're sticking to their "violence is bad" policy when in this specific situation violence is maybe not bad.

These black and white policies that discard nuance always run into these problems.

Similar to how the "zero violence policies" in schools means they punish the bullied because they're defending themselves.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#89

Post by jacquesm »

glogla wrote: post #83
brabel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all I can think of... I just don't see an outcome where Ukraine receives so much support from the West that it will manage to beat Russia and make it go home without accomplishing any of its goals.... people seem to think that's a possible outcome. I wonder why when Kiev seems to already be surrounded and the USA government (who was right about warning about an imminent invasion!) has already said (correct me…

I'm sure you'd also tell someone being raped to not defend themselves so it's over faster? Jesus Christ, how do you people get so callous? What is wrong with you? who hurt you? What made you give up empathy and humanity? I'll never understand you people.

Agreed, this is beyond disgusting.
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