Live data from Hacker News

Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

reuters.com

201–210 of 636 posts

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's reasonable to assume that for at least the next few months, you have a strange form of "diplomatic immunity" for attacks in Russia. No jury in the US would convict you, even in the unlikely event someone wanted to prosecute (which would be political suicide here). So, have at it.

Am not from the US but this seems very risky. Is there someone at the government who can clarify such guarantees. Am also curious what are the high level logistics to carry out something like this. Do you seek an untraceable route to Ukarine from US ? Do you unleash a worm like Stuxnet that will eventually cripple all Russian cyber attack infra ?

Jury nullification.

The idea is that a jury is allowed to make its decision without any outside interference. A jury can acquit a person even it they think the person is guilty. Thus a jury could give you a fee pass on hacking Russian systems, but you'd be relying on them to realise that and then think the moral reasons for acquittal out weigh the legal reasons for conviction.

Obviously courts don't like jury nullification try to prevent it, without harming a juries independence.

So possibly not a good idea to rely on jury nullification as your get out of jail free card.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't Russian computer systems already beyond the protection of US law?

Defending an ally from an enemy is not something the US government punishes people for. If you want to help the people of Ukraine then #standwithukraine.

This isn't true. You can certainly be prosecuted for committing crimes against enemies of the state. There's a reason we distinguish between law enforcement officials and civilians. Blur that line and things can get nasty.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#203
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge gamble most people aren't willing to accept.

Allies are dying today. Someone could help save them and you are talking them out of it?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of anything. I'm just explaining how many people in my industry see this request. It's noble if some want to risk their livelihoods and supporting their families to help support the effort. Not all of us can make that sacrifice.

I wish there was another option. I wish people in Ukraine weren't suffering.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that conservative, beyond dovetailing with what many on the US 'right' currently claim?

Conservatives tend to emphasize loyalty, authority, and purity as fundamental values, over and above the more widely-shared values of care, fairness, and liberty.[0] These "binding" values are a foundation for in-group vs. out-group thinking. And because loyalty and authority compete with fairness (and win out over it) there is less of a priority on the law as treating everyone equally. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

The majestic equality of the laws, which forbid the rich with the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you asked, but the very well-known understanding, going back probably to Napoleon or earlier (among foreign policy experts), is that Ukraine has geopolitics. Geography is far more important to national power than non-experts realize. Without Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, Russia loses sea access to the Black Sea and thus the Mediterranean for their navy (and also for trade), which historically has be…

> Napoleon and the Nazis both crossed through that region on their way to Russia Hitler yes. Napoleon no. The French neither attacked nor retreated through what is now Ukraine.

That naive geography positioning reasoning is far from reality. From that point of view Belorussia is more valuable.

That "Mystery of Russian Soul" lies among the lines of "Kiev - mother of Russian cities" (term of 12th century Primary Chronicle) and too many other historical facts. Like Wild Steppe (south of Ukraine) were fought for and liberated from Crimean Khanate by Russian Army. Modern Kherson, Nikolayev, Sevastopol, and Ekaterinoslav(Dnipro/Dnepropetrovsk), were established by Gregory Potemkin (Empress Catherine times) and populated by peasants from Russian heartlands - Tambov, Ryazan, Pskov, etc.

All that is well known and well remembered facts by Russian public. So we should not expect that Russian people will be so against all that. If in doubt then see the above.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's reasonable to assume that for at least the next few months, you have a strange form of "diplomatic immunity" for attacks in Russia. No jury in the US would convict you, even in the unlikely event someone wanted to prosecute (which would be political suicide here). So, have at it.

Am not from the US but this seems very risky. Is there someone at the government who can clarify such guarantees. Am also curious what are the high level logistics to carry out something like this. Do you seek an untraceable route to Ukarine from US ? Do you unleash a worm like Stuxnet that will eventually cripple all Russian cyber attack infra ?

There is no guarantee. There is really no one that could even make such a guarantee. Opinions of DOJ change with administrations. The president could issue a pardon after the fact. Congress could make a law. Perhaps the executive could find some loophole to deputize people into US Cybercom but that would likely make them a lawful combatants which has other entanglements.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#207
post #94

This thread is mostly full of jokes, and that's cool. But more seriously I'm exactly the kind of person I suppose this is meant to appeal to. I've spent the last 2-3 decades breaking into systems. Many of these systems comprise what the US calls "critical infrastructure". That's pipelines, power generation, transmission, distribution. Air traffic control systems. Government agencies. I'm based in the US. The problem…

> I'm exactly the kind of person I suppose this is meant to appeal to.

Quote from the article:

> "Ukrainian cybercommunity! It's time to get involved in the cyber defense of our country," the post read, asking hackers and cybersecurity experts to submit an application via Google docs, listing their specialties, such as malware development, and professional references.

If you're not Ukrainian, I guess the request is not aimed at you. Probably exactly for the reasons you mention. And if you were, the request is to fill in the form, not to go rogue.

Edit: @dang maybe change the title to "[...] calls on its hacker underground [...]" to make this a bit more clear?

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many gross Russian apologists on HN. Ukraine would be in a much better financial position if kleptocrats like Yanukovych hadn't siphoned billions of dollars of public money into their own pockets with the help of American collaborators like Paul Manafort. Something like 1/2 of a year's GDP stolen by Yanukovych and his cronies. https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-treasury-stripped-by-oust...

So what? Why is that the EU’s and NATO’s responsibility? He was legitimately elected. We never came up with a reason for war in Afghanistan for 20 years and haven’t been out of Afghanistan for 2 months, but Americans are already bending over backwards to start another one. Unreal.

He was narrowly elected and then had to flee the country once he started machine gunning unarmed protesters. Turns out his "narrow election" was at least partly due to the massive bribes he was paying out of the public coffers to election officials, opposition parties, & anti-corruption authorities.

Literally nobody wants another war, hence why everyone is outraged at Russia for invading a peaceful Ukraine based on the paranoid delusions of a mad man.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#209
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge gamble most people aren't willing to accept.

Bur remember that by treaty US and UK (and Russia of course) promised to defend Ukraine in exchange of their nukes. At least if they try to go after you, you can still argue that you were trying to comply to a treaty that both countries have decided to ignore.

Treaties are between governments. Individual citizens are not a member of the treaty. You don't get any authority to pursue individual action.

Re: Ukraine calls on hacker underground to defend against Russia

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to engage on the offensive side, there is plenty of work on the defensive side of things. * Detect and notify the Ukrainian government about threats or upcoming attacks. * Identify coordinated manipulative behaviour on social media. * Last but not least contact Patreon's management to release the funds that have been donated to Ukrainian veterans ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30461038 ) Fee…

Sorry but what? * It looks like there won't be a Ukrainian government to speak of in a few days. * Manipulative behaviour has been identified on twitter and Facebook almost every day for the last few years, and it hasn't really led to much anything. The Ukrainian government can't do anything about that, if the independent banana republics of FAANG don't decide to act, nothing is gonna change. * Likewise for patreon.…

I'm guessing you're getting downvoted for aggresive tone.

But you are right that social media networks are strong enablers of evil and helpers to enemies of freedom and democracy. Facebook and Twitter could easily stop (almost) all the misinformation and propaganda, but they don't because it makes them money.

Post reply on HN