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I want to pay for TextMate 2

marco.org

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Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#111

Post by spooneybarger »

irons wrote: post #106
derefr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then here's an idea that may make everybody here happy: the price for the software new is $60. The price for the software with a code from the previous edition is what you want . You can put in $60, or $0, or $256. How 'bout that?

Marco's position, which I support, is a little like Warren Buffett pointing out that his taxes are too low, which I also support. People who reply "Well if you think your taxes are so low, make a voluntary contribution" are probably-deliberately overlooking that the goal isn't for an individual to pay more, it's to provide meaningful support to the entity which needs the revenue, whether that's Allen Odgaard or the U…

People didn't agree to pay taxes because they were promised that their taxes would remain at X rate for Y period of time.

People did agree to buy TM1 because of the promise of a free upgrade to TM2.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#112

Post by spooneybarger »

backwardm wrote: post #87
munificent wrote: post #43

TextMate 2 is the perfect , yet heartbreaking example of Brook's Second-system effect. It's painful seeing an otherwise successful developer get so completely sucked into it.

Except we haven't even seen TM2 yet. It could be a more svelte, nematodeine, feature-less slice of software. Just because it's taken half an eon for even the beta announcement to come to fruition doesn't mean it's a bloat-ware type scenario. At least I hope it isn't.

Sadly it isn't even a beta announcement.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#114

Post by plainOldText »

phillmv wrote: post #72
plainOldText wrote: post #68

If as a current TextMate user I'll have to pay for TextMate 2 I'll just switch to MacVim.

If you don't mind me asking, why on earth would you do that? 1. Your existing copy of TextMate will continue to work just fine 2. Have you used MacVim recently? Assuming TM2 has a totally painless upgrade path from TM1, you will be spending weeks getting used to vim. Surely, it is cheaper to invest in TM2.

1.Yes, indeed my existing version of TextMate will work just fine, however it won't get any new features/updates in the long run since probably most resources will be spent developing TextMate 2. I will be using an abandoned product.

2. My TextMate license is only a few months old, so probably there will be the felling of buyer's remorse.

3. Since MacVim is free if there will ever be a totally new MacVim version I can easily switch to it with no additional costs involved.

So in the short run, yes sticking to TextMate is far easier, but in the long run I feel like switching to MacVim will be a better investment.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#115

Post by spooneybarger »

vtail wrote: post #40
craftsman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's depressing. I can use emacs (others would give different examples) for free and I can use it in my daily work quite efficiently. So given that reality, I have a hard time paying for an editor, even if it is a key tool of my trade.

What I was trying to say is that every tool should be evaluated using 'productivity gain vs cost' framework. It may well be that for some people productivity gains of TextMate vs emacs/vim/other editor are small and therefore paying any price for TextMate is unreasonable, since the alternatives are free. But in a case where TextMate does yield to substantial productivity gain, "$60 is too much" is a wrong mental mode…

Few people are saying that $60 is too much. Many people are saying, I paid $60 w/ the promise of an upgrade to X. I expect that commitment to be honored.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#116

Post by spooneybarger »

adambyrtek wrote: post #98
Shebanator wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. The fact that so few developers are willing to pay for good tools is why we end up with tools like Eclipse.

Do you really claim that existing commercial IDEs are so much better than Eclipse?

I use eclipse every day and would never defend it against almost any disparagement.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#117

Post by bradgessler »

phillmv wrote: post #60
vtail wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very likely that the original promise ("upgrade to version 2.0 will be completely free") was a huge factor in 2.0 shipping delay: Allan would need to invest a lot of effort to ship the new version to get only marginal return, as TextMate penetration of the relevant market was already high at the time the promise was made. Charging for 2.0 would seem like a breach of contract for people who only bought TextMate 1…

I can't believe there are so many cheapskates in here. It's $60! WHO CARES! It's a tool you presumably use every single hour of your programming life . I refuse to accept that you feel personally violated over an idiot promise the author made six years ago. Are people really saying that if the dude came out and said, "Hey guys, it's done but… if I keep my original promise, I literally won't be able to afford the band…

Consider how many hours of productivity where wasted watching TextMate block the UI thread all the time. I've probably wasted hours in the project-wide search alone. The lost time vastly exceeds $60.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#118

Post by justin_vanw »

burgerbrain wrote: post #4

Paying for a text editor . Boggles the mind.

The point that parent is trying to make is, emacs and vim are free. emacs and vim are each much much more advanced editors than textmate.

I tend to agree. Also, the textmate 2 debacle shows the inherent weakness in basing a large part of your productivity on closed source software. What if textmate 2 never came out? What if textmate didn't work on OSX 10.9, or what if in 5 years OSX is no longer a reasonable platform to develop on at all? I know that Emacs will be compiled wherever I land, and that all my extensions and configuration will go with me.

It's foolish to lock yourself in to a specific vendor for something as important as an editor (if you are a programmer). Feel free to be foolish, it's your right, but it is foolish.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#119

Post by jarek »

phillmv wrote: post #67
teaspoon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the same faulty assumption that Marco does: that everyone who bought TextMate is a fellow software developer living in a wealthy nation. Many of the "cheapskates in here" are happy to pay twice, but recognize that it's a privilege to be able to do so.

Bro, c'mon now. I hate using this argument, but if you can afford a macbook you can definitely pony up $60 for your main development tool . Dude's running a business, not a charity. Shit, I use vim. If you're so screwed for cash there are a couple of first class alternatives. EDIT: I use a macbook too. I think it's a great dev platform. It only represents about 5% of my yearly income, though. I doubt I'd be using it…

> Dude's running a business, not a charity.

So everyone should give him more money than he originally agreed to take to provide a product? Sounds like an, uh, donation.

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