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As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

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Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#91

Post by yread »

hollandia wrote: post #83
tailspin2019 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to detract from the importance of their statement today, but I’ve always thought that they were really a “Czech company” on paper only. Take a look at their supposed Czech HQ office: https://www.jetbrains.com/company/contacts/prague/ And then compare to their St Petersburg, Russia office: https://www.jetbrains.com/company/contacts/st-petersburg/ Which one looks more like a HQ? The latter office is their largest […

They are Czech company only on paper (probably for better access to western markets). They don't have any sort of real presence in Czech Republic, just offices for their global teams. Their products don't have Czech versions. Not even their website is available in Czech language. Highly unusual for a technical company. Even big global companies offer at least something in our local language.

FWIW last year I got an invoice from the Czech company and this year from a Dutch BV.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#93

Post by kodah »

munk-a wrote: post #50
kodah wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.

Well, right now they've officially committed a "special military action" not a war - and there is plenty of stuff that was happening before even that weaksauce declaration came in. That all said, they have been conducting mass detention of civilians in Ukraine so I think we've probably got some borderline war-crime actions. It'll take a long time to sort out exactly everything that's happened today and the last week…

> That all said, war crimes are defined by the victor and their declaration and potential repercussions for them is an entirely political process.

This is why I pointed out that what they're describing is not a war crime yet. What you're saying is not true, there is a court that deals with war crimes and they do have specific definitions. Unfortunately the term has been popularized and liberally thrown around since then, giving birth to this idea that war crimes are somehow only a colloquial term for bad things happening.

Check out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_court The court that tries war crimes, and also defines them based on Geneva conventions.

The Liebor Code, Hague Conventions, and Nuremberg Principles all heavily influenced the Geneva Convention.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#94

Post by kodah »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #46
kodah wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of off topic, but Russia hasn't comitted a war crime. They've committed an act of war. Not really the same thing.

I'm not a lawyer, soldier, or diplomat, but by my reading of this definition of war crimes, they have. > https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1...

The ICC is what decides a war crime from a military action or act of war, and that takes in a lot of variables it would be difficult to account for. There'll be long investigations after this to figure things out, I'm sure. As I said in another reply, if I was a betting man, I would agree; however, I also dislike the popularization of the term war crime and just throwing it around.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#95

Post by stjohnswarts »

labrador wrote: post #2

Context: JetBrains' founders are Russian. They have offices in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Free speech isn't really a thing in Russia. To openly condemn the actions of the Russian government could have serious repercussions for them, but they did it anyway. Спаси́бо, JetBrains. - Dylan Beattie

I hope the people in Russian cities will be okay after this. It's one thing to denounce it from outside the country if you don't have to suffer the consequences :( . Putin's operatives are known to disappear people without a whole lot of provocation.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#96

Post by stjohnswarts »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #87
Mikeb85 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're mostly Russian. But legal status matters in that Russia can't shut them down...

Russia can shut down its operations in St Petersbourg.

I would imagine after this they will shut down all Russian operations. Putin is on war footing and he's not about to allow dissent for much longer.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#97

Post by stjohnswarts »

adamnemecek wrote: post #4
labrador wrote: post #2

Context: JetBrains' founders are Russian. They have offices in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Free speech isn't really a thing in Russia. To openly condemn the actions of the Russian government could have serious repercussions for them, but they did it anyway. Спаси́бо, JetBrains. - Dylan Beattie

JetBrains is technically a Czech company though, as in the company is a legal entity in the Czech Republic.

Most of their employees (by a long shot) are in Russia though.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#98

Post by stjohnswarts »

qiskit wrote: post #14
labrador wrote: post #2

Context: JetBrains' founders are Russian. They have offices in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Free speech isn't really a thing in Russia. To openly condemn the actions of the Russian government could have serious repercussions for them, but they did it anyway. Спаси́бо, JetBrains. - Dylan Beattie

Using that logic, we don't have free speech in the US either. Ask the Dixie Chicks, phil donahue, etc. > To openly condemn the actions of the Russian government could have serious repercussions for them, but they did it anyway. Considering most of jetbrains business is in the West, to support the russian government would have had serious repercussions. Condemning the russian government is actually a smart business de…

Horrible comparison. In particular none of them faced government sanctions which are most likely in the pipeline now as Russia goes to war. No doubt dissent will be quashed harshly in the coming weeks. I wish all the people at JetBrains the best of luck with this. I don't think it was necessarily a good move on the part of leadership who I suspect aren't in Russia currently...

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#99

Post by solarkraft »

22c wrote: post #90
ushakov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, people of HN need to realize what it takes for a Russian company to voice narratives not in line with the government (in this case supporting their war enemy) for JetBrains this could mean losing contracts with other (pro-government) Russian companies, house searches for their own employees and executives and targeted “investigation” campaigns they could be declared a “foreign agent” or “undesirable organization…

> supporting their war enemy Condemning the attacks is not the same as supporting their governments war enemy.

For the russian government? GP implies that this is the case.

Re: As JetBrains we condemn the attacks taking place

#100

Post by jay_kyburz »

kodah wrote: post #94
jay_kyburz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, soldier, or diplomat, but by my reading of this definition of war crimes, they have. > https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v1...

The ICC is what decides a war crime from a military action or act of war, and that takes in a lot of variables it would be difficult to account for. There'll be long investigations after this to figure things out, I'm sure. As I said in another reply, if I was a betting man, I would agree; however, I also dislike the popularization of the term war crime and just throwing it around.

War Criminal or simply Mass Murderer. The leaders who instigated the killing should spend their remaining years in jail.
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