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Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

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Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the thug has nuclear weapons, responses get a lot trickier.

The thug also thinks his knife won't be needed. Often I wonder which of our leaders has ever played poker. It seems like Putin has figured out that we won't push all-in, ever, so he steals another pot. If the west really cared about this, the only way now is to retaliate way out of proportion to what's happened. Before this happened, the west also didn't act like it wanted to contain the Russians, so the Russians got…

Please explain why you think the West (Americans) ought to go die for Ukraine. If you want the west to go all in for this, I hope you've signed up to serve already.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#842
post #729

Another Russian here. I don't agree and don't support this action. We anticipate long years if not decades of isolation, even more stagnating economy, even more authoritarian government. By all means it's a terrible thing. For both Russians and Ucrainians alike. But... The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no…

>The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one.

Lay off the Vodka Sergei, there have already been airstrikes in a Dozen Ukrainian cities. The scale already far outpaces anything that happened in Crimea.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#843
Oh, that?

That's simply the strategy of Mad Men.

The problem is, he really is mad and has thousands of nukes.

The self induced detachment from reality like Angela Merkel suspected in 2014. In reality a corrupt second class paranoid ward boss of a corrupt second class paranoid former major power. With thousands of nukes. And he probably thinks his time is running out to establish a Russian empire in his lifetime. Despite thousands of nukes.

Do you recognize the repeating pattern above? Thousands of nukes.

So yes, he will use nukes if there is no other option left.

There will be a Russian Empire or there will be nothing. Your choice.

Pray some fraction from the Russian power apparatus eliminates him in time. But I doubt, there is anyone left, not infected by the same illusion.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no country like Russia that is accepting such high risk. Russia is a dictatorship. It's Putin taking risks to settle old scores that he feels weren't addressed when the Soviet union collapsed as a way to distract from Russia's severe internal problems. Putin sees the west as weak. Germany has a new leader. France is about to have elections. The UK is still dealing with Brexit. The EU is fractured with Poland…

> "The US is so divided that a previous president is encouraging Putin to invade" I've started hearing this a lot this morning and I don't see where Trump actually said this. From what I can tell he's blaming the current administration for allowing this to happen and saying that Putin is brilliant for taking advantage of Biden and outsmarting him. Seems like he's primarily calling Biden inept rather than encouraging…

Here is what Trump said. He very clearly praised Putin's invasion.

> “Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. ‘I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. ... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/23/trump-pra...

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#845
post #442

From Hungary with deep shame because of our traitor government. There are many of us that are deeply disturbed with what is happening, and our government is not representative of all of us.

If Putin will take over Ukraine and the army will be in next to Hungarian's border, who will invest in Hungary? This is extremely short-sighted. I hope you will kick him out in a month.

Companies invested in West Germany very well before 1990, so I don't see that as a problem

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#846

Every Western country should impose total sanctions on Russia. Stop all trade with Russia.

And nationalize all property and capital owned by Russian companies and possibly wealthy individuals.

at what point does that turn into an act of war?

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#847

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

I don't think Russia is going to lose this one. People on HN tend to be in denial about the current state of the world, but I don't think Putin is. We're already starting to see some food shortages across the globe due to climate change, this will only intensify. Together Russia and Ukraine produce 29% of the worlds wheat exports. As climate change worsens food will become as big of a concern as oil. We are also runn…

> I don't believe the US would immediately attack Russia even if Russia wiped Paris off the map, because doing so would guarantee we are all wiped off the map.

France also has nuclear weapons, estimated as the fourth largest stockpile in the world. Even if the rest of NATO were to hesitate Moscow would already have been hit unilaterally by the french in retaliation. No one is going to fold here.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#848

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

I find the rationale for Russia's aggression fuzzy at best, but I think to view this as a Russia versus NATO or Russia versus Ukraine is, perhaps, less helpful than it first appears.

In short, I suspect this may be Putin's way of applying pressure to Russian elites. The actions proceeding from him appear desperate (i.e. the brazen assassination attempt of Nalvany) and suggest that Putin feels much less secure than his strongman portrayal suggests.

This war achieves something Putin lacks hegemony over, restricting the lifestyles and wealth of Russia's nomadic elite (and especially their assets). Elite members of Russian society will almost surely be targets of Western sanctions. This may secure Putin and his cronies and ensure a desirable transition of power by kneecapping potential contenders of the Russian throne (for lack of a better word). No doubt western sanctions will be leaky and allow some elites through relatively unscathed, but it may restrict their latitude of choice sufficiently.

I think this is Putin versus the elites. Elites who may be feeling comfortable usurping Putin and installing someone pliant to their interests. Putin may be simply reminding them of what he is capable of.

I suspect Ukraine was selected due to the presence of a large minority of citizens neutral or proponents of Russian rule. Other former Soviet states seem much more reluctant to be Russian subjects. I think Russia is simply conquering territory of peoples who will not oppose its rule.

Perhaps Putin is insane, or delusional, but evaluating public actions without knowing what went on behind closed doors feels too rash.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#849

What is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as soph…

Having Nuclear weapons let’s you hold a gun to the planet’s head. That’s the factor you haven’t taken into account.
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