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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#351

Post by maerF0x0 »

Anderkent wrote: post #324
maerF0x0 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less likely to ask for higher salaries and raises. Of all the apologetics around pay gap, I think this is the one that many people could agree is the least fair. The company knows you're worth more, they can feasibly pay you more, they pay someone similarly skilled and talented more. But they do not simply because of a conversation at the very beginning of accepting a role (and once a year). Talk about an abusive a…

> The company knows you're worth more, they can feasibly pay you more, they pay someone similarly skilled and talented more. But they do not simply because of a conversation at the very beginning of accepting a role (and once a year). Talk about an abusive angle. is this abusive? the company is not your friend, it is always going to pay you as little as it can that still keeps you working there happily. agreed that c…

> the company is not your friend, it is always going to pay you as little as it can that still keeps you working there happily.

You're right it's not a friend, however this model sets up all kinds of terrible ethical games. Am I also going to happily work for as many employers and fake as little work as possible to collect many pay checks? See the arms race we're setting up by choosing to play entirely selfishly. (Which economics would call rationally)

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#352

Post by ajsnigrutin »

giantg2 wrote: post #350
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of them are really corrupt. In slovenia, unions are very friendly with some political parties and unfrieldly with others, and the "other" one proposed a tax change, which would basically lower the income tax by raising the zero-eth tax bracket level (progressive taxes, 0% for first X eur, then 16% for the next bracket, 26% for the next,... X was to be raised). This would mean that someone earning minimum wage w…

That's fair. Unions can be corrupt in the US too. If they get greedy, they can take down the company (manufacturing can only compensate up to a certain point depending on international compensation). I have started believing in unions more over the years because I work for a company that is well known for doing the right thing and caring. Yet, I've repeatedly seen the company break its own policies and screws people…

We were a communist country (yugoslavia) and there were always unions here... but as with everything, all the union leaders were in the party, and did what the party wanted them... same with the company directors... so yeah.

But it's funny, because a lot of left parties here (even the ones with the red star in the logo) are always saying that we should tax work less, and tax capital gains more... but then the "other party" does that, and they start protesting (probably because they hope to be in the government after the elections, and want the money to steal for themselves).

Basically, the only solution for our government is to take them on a vacation with a plane somewhere, like with the polish politicians - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#353

Post by selfhoster11 »

gruez wrote: post #81
Levitz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we are at it, the cost of a product should depend on its objective value, not what the market pays. My point being that sure, ideally it wouldn't be like that, but any implementation I can possibly think of is not viable at all. Jobs are fairly unique things.

> While we are at it, the cost of a product should depend on its objective value, not what the market pays. "What the market pays" is the objective value.

From a pedantic economist perspective, yes. From a common sense perspective, if a £40 jacket was sold for £200 to someone, then it's still worth £40 even if this person overpaid for it.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#354

Post by giantg2 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #352
giantg2 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair. Unions can be corrupt in the US too. If they get greedy, they can take down the company (manufacturing can only compensate up to a certain point depending on international compensation). I have started believing in unions more over the years because I work for a company that is well known for doing the right thing and caring. Yet, I've repeatedly seen the company break its own policies and screws people…

We were a communist country (yugoslavia) and there were always unions here... but as with everything, all the union leaders were in the party, and did what the party wanted them... same with the company directors... so yeah. But it's funny, because a lot of left parties here (even the ones with the red star in the logo) are always saying that we should tax work less, and tax capital gains more... but then the "other…

I remember hearing about a union in China and thinking the same thing - how the union is basically government run instead of run by the members.

In the US, for years the corruption was organized crime controlling the labor unions to extract money for themselves mostly through "protection" from them starting strikes.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#355

Post by cm2012 »

craigie wrote: post #291
cm2012 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullets 1-3 are excellent reforms that should be the case everywhere. Bullet 4 could end up with bad consequences because there's so many ways to fudge the data. And justification is in the eye of the beholder. For instance, in digital marketing, direct response advertising roles tend to be higher paid than marketing roles without strict KPIs (brand, organic social, etc.) Direct response advertising, for whatever rea…

Can this law distinguish between a direct response marketer and a brand marketer Yes that's not equal work. You have to compare two brand marketers.

When a marketer lodges a complaint and points out they did 80% of the same work as the other person (Planning ad campaigns, getting creative made, launching on ad channels, etc.), the EU, not being subject matter experts, is going to have a hard time figuring out who is right.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#356

Post by gassiss »

dahfizz wrote: post #261
gassiss wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual reality is that your salary is not tied to your value, but to your negotiation skills (carried mostly by your leverage when you receive the offer)

Yes, but your ability to negotiate is directly tied to your value to the company. You can't negotiate without any leverage.

This is what most people get wrong in this field. The only relationship between cost of labor and value is the upper bound. Which means no for-profit company would hire someone for less value than what they expect to get in return for that person.

But the actual cost of labor (your compensation) is dictated by market forces just like any other commodity. Why would anyone hire you at $100k/year if they have someone else, just as good as you, that they can hire at $50k/year?

Your ability to negotiate is tied to your leverage, which more often than not is competing offers (including your current job). That has absolutely nothing to do with value, other than the upper bound I mentioned above.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#357

Post by efsavage »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #181
efsavage wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once took a break from software and applied to be a cashier at Barnes & Noble (just to get out of the house). It was entertaining to watch the manager hastily scan the application for a $7/hour, 10 hours/week job and then pause and try to find a polite way to break it to me that they weren't going to meet the $180k I made at my previous job.

Did you get the job? For a lot of jobs like that they will deny you for being overqualified. I know a guy who had a double doctorate, couldn't find a job anywhere for nearly two years due to being overqualified.

I did, and I really enjoyed it! It was not a sustainable financial option for me (I spent far more than I made there due to the employee discount) but was successful in that it gave my life a bit of cadence while I recharged for a few months. I almost did the same thing during my last hiatus, but as a parent I was not inclined/allowed to drift off into endless video game marathons.

My limited/indirect experience on both sides of the "overqualified" thing is that it's usually a result of the employer feeling threatened this person will supplant them, or the prospective employee coming off as entitled or non-serious. Having a doctorate doesn't impinge on your ability to mow lawns, but if you're making sure everyone knows you're meant for better things, that's a problem.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#358

Post by efsavage »

giantg2 wrote: post #171
efsavage wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once took a break from software and applied to be a cashier at Barnes & Noble (just to get out of the house). It was entertaining to watch the manager hastily scan the application for a $7/hour, 10 hours/week job and then pause and try to find a polite way to break it to me that they weren't going to meet the $180k I made at my previous job.

I worked a second job at Lowes one summer/fall. Similar story there - tons of questions from coworkers and customers about what I'm doing working there.

Indeed, when I told friends/peers I was working at Barnes and Noble they almost universally assumed I was building their website.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#359

Post by cloverich »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #344
cloverich wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality (based on my current interviewing) is open roles already have this range, and it is relatively wide. But by not disclosing they can get you lower. Say range is 170-220, you are coming from 170; they offer you 170 and you negotiate 180. You feel good and got a bump, but employer could have gone higher. But not all employers are offering the same range. I ask up front now and select the higher paying ranges…

If they post 170-220 they can afford 220, and everybody will be hitting the upper margin of that.... this means that they'll advertise 140-190, you'll get 180, and be happy, even though they had a budget for 220, if they couldn't get you to do it for 180.

Everyone won't hit the upper margin of that; only those that are either exceptionally strong, experienced, or landing offers at multiple companies will. More generally though, the trick is to research and interview at multiple companies, and get the salary range established early (first call). Companies compete on talent heavily right now, so you can push the ranges by simply talking (not even interviewing) to enough companies, asking ranges, and selecting out the lower ones.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#360

Post by giantg2 »

efsavage wrote: post #358
giantg2 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked a second job at Lowes one summer/fall. Similar story there - tons of questions from coworkers and customers about what I'm doing working there.

Indeed, when I told friends/peers I was working at Barnes and Noble they almost universally assumed I was building their website.

Haha yep. I had one customer tell me I should go to work for him in construction or go to school instead of working at Lowes. The look on his face was kind of funny when I told him I have a masters and work as a software dev. Then it stopped being funny when I realized how shitty it is to be working 40-50 hours at my main job plus 16-20 hours at Lowes and nor even make $100k. Masters degrees are such a waste of time.
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