U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#241

Post by eric-hu » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:00 PM UTC

Mezzie wrote: post #177

concinds wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

I'm pro cryptocurrency (the idea) and anti cryptocurrency (the practice). > Thankfully crypto isn't a democracy. Money market funds, banks, stock exchanges, and every other financial institution can be frozen instantaneously by the U.S. President to "prevent another financial collapse". Those who are OK with that much power being concentrated in one person, can continue avoiding crypto. But no amount of public outcry…

> That's not how it works. The President can't just call up banks and tell them not to give people their own money, or shut down every stock market in the world.

Isn’t this what Biden is doing this week with Russian nationals tied to the invasion of Ukraine? I agree with you it’s more complicated than just a phone call, but for the opposing parties they don’t need to think about those details. Those people and companies who will be heavily economically sanctioned—-they’ll be eyeing crypto as a way to sidestep these sanctions.

(And to be clear, I do not agree with Russia is in this situations, but I’m looking at it from a supply/demand perspective. Events such as this are clear demand signals to me.)

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#242

Post by lupire » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #187

deprave wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I can pay my utility company $100 a month for energy I consume, or pay $40000 for a bitcoin representing energy someone else consumed? Got it.

Yes. How many ways do you have to reliably monetize a portion of that $100 that goes to the utility company, though? At its core, proof of work (not Bitcoin's anymore because of ASICs), allows that.

I dont need to monetize it, I can keep the $100 and not buy the energy. And it's not "reliable" if I get rug pulled (extemely common) or someone else has a more effcient mining setup (extremely common).

Maybe if I'm stuck on inefficient resistive heatong in winter, mining makes sense.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#243

Post by tbirdz » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

danuker wrote: post #115

lr4444lr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay your taxes, fines, and court ordered debts with fiat currency. It's arguably THE MOST stable thing in a functioning society above pure barter.

Try saving for retirement. At 2% inflation (the target rate), after 20 years you'd lose 1 - (.98 ^ 20) = 33.2% of the purchasing power of your savings. But right now, inflation is 7.5% year-over-year. And that's the official measure, which uses "owners' equivalent rent" based on a survey, instead of actual rent prices. In the past 20 years (Jan 2002 - Jan 2022), the CPI went from 177.7 to 281.933, or a 58.6% increase…

Then buy I-Bonds

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#244

Post by jeremyjh » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

tastyfreeze wrote: post #230

jeremyjh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that more and more capital is directed towards them is a symptom of the fact the national currencies have shortcomings. I literally laughed out loud. People buy crypto because they think it will rise in value, nor because it has any relevance as a currency (outside of certain illicit markets).

Counter example, I have part of my savings in crypto for no other reason that to protect it from the inflationary policies of the Fed. The ability to use crypto directly in trade is a bonus.

I don't see how that is a counter example. You are using crypto as an investment asset, not as a currency.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#245

Post by vel0city » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

danuker wrote: post #115

lr4444lr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay your taxes, fines, and court ordered debts with fiat currency. It's arguably THE MOST stable thing in a functioning society above pure barter.

Try saving for retirement. At 2% inflation (the target rate), after 20 years you'd lose 1 - (.98 ^ 20) = 33.2% of the purchasing power of your savings. But right now, inflation is 7.5% year-over-year. And that's the official measure, which uses "owners' equivalent rent" based on a survey, instead of actual rent prices. In the past 20 years (Jan 2002 - Jan 2022), the CPI went from 177.7 to 281.933, or a 58.6% increase…

> Try saving for retirement. At 2% inflation (the target rate), after 20 years you'd lose 1 - (.98 ^ 20) = 33.2% of the purchasing power of your savings.

People shouldn't be holding dollars for retirement. People should be investing in productive assets. Its not good to have society's wealth locked up in paper notes or shiny metals hidden under a mattress or buried in the backyard.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#246

Post by tastyfreeze » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:10 PM UTC

jeremyjh wrote: post #244

tastyfreeze wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter example, I have part of my savings in crypto for no other reason that to protect it from the inflationary policies of the Fed. The ability to use crypto directly in trade is a bonus.

I don't see how that is a counter example. You are using crypto as an investment asset, not as a currency.

I am just hoping to maintain purchasing power of money I have earned by getting out of fiat currencies however I can. I shouldn't need to invest in anything to maintain the value of my money.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#247

Post by Mezzie » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

eric-hu wrote: post #241

Mezzie wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro cryptocurrency (the idea) and anti cryptocurrency (the practice). > Thankfully crypto isn't a democracy. Money market funds, banks, stock exchanges, and every other financial institution can be frozen instantaneously by the U.S. President to "prevent another financial collapse". Those who are OK with that much power being concentrated in one person, can continue avoiding crypto. But no amount of public outcry…

> That's not how it works. The President can't just call up banks and tell them not to give people their own money, or shut down every stock market in the world. Isn’t this what Biden is doing this week with Russian nationals tied to the invasion of Ukraine? I agree with you it’s more complicated than just a phone call, but for the opposing parties they don’t need to think about those details. Those people and compan…

Yes, but he only can do that to American companies/companies that do business here. He can't tell, say, the Swiss to keep the Russians' money.

There's a difference between "Money market funds, banks, stock exchanges, and every other financial institution can be frozen instantaneously by the U.S. President to 'prevent another financial collapse'" as thread OP mentioned and what you're talking about. I was addressing only systematic action for the sake of averting economic problems, not financial uses of national security power.

For INDIVIDUALS, you're absolutely correct.

Which is why I'm a large proponent of local currencies.

(Trust me, I understand. I'm a very confused Ukranian-American who would like to go back to not being relevant.)

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#248

Post by rvz » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

matt_mb wrote: post #214

rvz wrote: post #20

Now I know why lots of terrorists, extremists and dark net criminals are running to Signal with the release of a private untraceable cryptocurrency called MobileCoin, which allows them to fund their operations anywhere in the world. They seem to be starting to learn that Signal's USP is great for criminals and scammers. To Downvoters: I'm sorry to report that it is true: [0] [1]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/22872133…

There's plenty of us that use Signal and aren't terrorists or extremists. Do you drive a car or use cash? Terrorists do those things also.

> There's plenty of us that use Signal and aren't terrorists or extremists.

That is my point. The road to hell is paved with good intentions isn't it?

Except that on Signal, it has gotten better for terrorists, extremists and criminals with E2EE, and a private, unregulated, untraceable cryptocurrency (MobileCoin) which they can use to fund their activities.

> Do you drive a car or use cash? Terrorists do those things also.

The authorities can easily trace them up with their number plate and catch them trying to move that physical cash anywhere and it can be seized off of them.

Why would they want to go a high risk of losing it all when Signal + E2EE + MobileCoin sounds more of an attractive very low risk route and extremely untraceable form of communication for them to continue to fund their illegal activities from anywhere in the world?

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#249

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #16

> safeguarding the integrity of the nation’s economy Without question crypto, now +2 trillion in market cap, is a systemic risk to the US economy, notwithstanding serious policy mistakes the Congress, Treasury & the Fed have made since QE1. I'm hoping USSS and other entities cleans house. USDT fully diluted market cap is about equal to that of PNC Bank, America's 7th largest bank. If PNC Bank's reserves and market ac…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#250

Post by JeremyNT » Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

jonathan-adly wrote: post #37

jeremyjh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that more and more capital is directed towards them is a symptom of the fact the national currencies have shortcomings. I literally laughed out loud. People buy crypto because they think it will rise in value, nor because it has any relevance as a currency (outside of certain illicit markets).

>People buy crypto because they think it will rise in value, nor because it has any relevance as a currency (outside of certain illicit markets). Source? As far as I can see, Bitcoiners are especially hammering the messages about Austrian economics, the right of freedom to transact, self-custody, separating money from the state and so on. Their scripture material, rarely talk about "price" at all. The maxis will even…

Not to cast too broad a brush, but humans are really good at rationalizing things and denying their true motivations.

Sure, there are some true believer libertarian cryptonerds still living the original dream.

I suspect, though, that for every "true believer" out there with actual deeply held beliefs about financial systems, you'll find countless others in it purely to ride the wave and speculate, who learn just enough of the jargon to befuddle objections in casual conversation.

Source: several non-technical, non-economist relatives who have "gotten into" cryptocurrencies in the past few years, trying to explain their merits to me.