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U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

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Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#101

Post by cmiles74 »

mantenpanther wrote: post #74
dangoor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? I recommend not using the "what about the stock market?" tactic to defend cryptocurrencies. Crypto is more speculative than the stock market because companies have physical assets, ongoing revenue and profits, dividends that they pay out to their share…

Bitcoin is anchored in physics and math. And used by millions without western privileges.

US currency is backed by the government, a mortgage is backed by property. In my opinion, "physics and math" do not provide the same kind of underlying value as a government or real estate.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#102

Post by ATsch »

frockington1 wrote: post #83
Vespasian wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation will happen. Some Crypto people may believe that they are immune to the governments of the world but they really aren't. Whoever can kick down your door has the ability to make some rules and especially after a significant economic crash rules will be demanded. Since crypto doesn't do anything fundamentally new I predict that most of those rules will look like current financial laws "but on the blockchain"…

How will the government know whos door to kick down? Your wallet doesn't have a physical address.... unless you're hoarding your money on an exchange

Hoarding money on exchanges is the only thing you can do with cryptocurrency aside from buying jpegs and maybe (if you're lucky) drugs.

E.g. https://www.nber.org/papers/w29396 points out that only 10% of bitcoin transactions are economically meaningful and only 2.5% do not involve an exchange.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#103

Post by mantenpanther »

mlac wrote: post #79
mantenpanther wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is anchored in physics and math. And used by millions without western privileges.

Highway infrastructure is also anchored in physics and math. It doesn’t mean we should treat highways like a currency that should be purchased and traded. Starting a business is open for millions “without western privileges” - and stock is owning a business. Starting a profitable business that adds value (people are willing to pay you for a service) is a lot more useful to society than spinning up another coin that d…

A neutral, permissionless currency adds value.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#104

Post by concinds »

pjc50 wrote: post #100
concinds wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

> But no amount of public outcry can ban, shut down or criminalize crypto, same as you can't ban IMAP or AES. This is a terrible example as the US government really did ban DES for a while - at least for "export", which includes publishing on the internet. People who say "the government can't ban X" are really badly underestimating how far governments are willing to go if you really do start disrupting the state.

Yes, governments can try, but there will always be ways to fight it; including using sneakernet to exchange hardware wallets, instead of traceable on-blockchain transactions. Crypto is as impossible to ban as the internet at this point.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#105

Post by lr4444lr »

johndevor wrote: post #60
afpx wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin was some neat tech. But, in case you haven’t noticed it’s been taken over by finance bros. Now, it’s just a scam to prey on the poor and ignorant.

Wait until you hear about fiat currencies.

You can pay your taxes, fines, and court ordered debts with fiat currency. It's arguably THE MOST stable thing in a functioning society above pure barter.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#106

Post by logifail »

bluGill wrote: post #80
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

There are different types of speculative investments. Stocks are backed by the company they are behind, when the company goes out of business the stocks stop trading. When you own stocks you vote on company leadership (or at least should). When the company makes money they pay you cash as a dividend (for tax reasons this most often comes in the form of a stock buy back making your stock more valuable. As such stock s…

> When the company makes money they pay you cash as a dividend (for tax reasons this most often comes in the form of a stock buy back [...])

Often?

"Nearly 75% of the stocks in the S&P 500 pay a dividend, and the dividend for most of them exceeds the yield on U.S. 10-year Treasury bonds (currently around 2%)"[0]

[0] https://cabotwealth.com/daily/dividend-stocks/highest-paying...

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#107

Post by pjc50 »

lupire wrote: post #24
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #16

> safeguarding the integrity of the nation’s economy Without question crypto, now +2 trillion in market cap, is a systemic risk to the US economy, notwithstanding serious policy mistakes the Congress, Treasury & the Fed have made since QE1. I'm hoping USSS and other entities cleans house. USDT fully diluted market cap is about equal to that of PNC Bank, America's 7th largest bank. If PNC Bank's reserves and market ac…

> market cap is about equal to that of PNC Bank, America's 7th largest bank. PNC Market cap, or assets they hold? A currency is not the same as the bank that holds it. Also, how big is PNC compared to #1?

The 10k claims assets of $466bn : https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/713676/00007...

Minus liabilities of $412bn gives you $54bn of free equity, which is a decent enough reserve ratio (capacity to absorb losses) for a bank.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#108

Post by anfogoat »

Wow to that video. I have thing about aggrandizing law enforcement and seeing over the top propaganda so I was forced to stop watching at the 30 second mark but that there exists a law enforcement agency for whom it is legal to even plan on producing such a thing is a problem in and of itself. Thinking about the supply of voters who absorb this sort of thing hook line and sinker is devastatingly depressing.

And where is the hub. All I can find is /investigation/DigitalAssets but that can't be it. Usually when law enforcement does something their actions at least result in an accidentally positive side effect, like a crime getting solved. Here I would have expected that side effect to be a some sort of an informational website the public could access.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#109

Post by pjc50 »

concinds wrote: post #104
pjc50 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no amount of public outcry can ban, shut down or criminalize crypto, same as you can't ban IMAP or AES. This is a terrible example as the US government really did ban DES for a while - at least for "export", which includes publishing on the internet. People who say "the government can't ban X" are really badly underestimating how far governments are willing to go if you really do start disrupting the state.

Yes, governments can try, but there will always be ways to fight it; including using sneakernet to exchange hardware wallets, instead of traceable on-blockchain transactions. Crypto is as impossible to ban as the internet at this point.

You end up in a "war on drugs" scenario. You could argue whether it is "possible" or "impossible" to ban drugs, given their continued availability, but they certainly have been criminalized.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#110

Post by pjc50 »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #70
joshjdr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Purely speculative” is what makes it more akin to gambling than investing in income generating assets.

Crypto can be an income-generating asset just like any stock that pays dividends. You can use lending protocols or act as a liquidity provider and, in many cases, have your income earned in a stable coin (such as USDC).

Hilariously, crypto has reinvented fractional reserve banking. "Staking" is just traditional fixed-duration lending, but with some weird caveats and liquidation rules borrowed from margin trading that you need to read carefully.
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