How are there so many comments that don't seem to understand you can have both. YOU can keep using cards for literally everything. Cash just need to exist and businesses should be forced to take it. That doesn't mean YOU have to use cash. YOU can live happily without it and use cards but the less well off should still have the right to use cash. But just because they may sometimes use cash that doesn't mean that YOU will be forced to carry cash. If cash exists that doesn't mean you have to use it. Why does it need to go into a permanent record that I gave my friend $10? Just to reiterate one last time... you can keep ignoring cash and live happily even if cash is around.
In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
131–140 of 849 posts
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
We can fix that, and it is being addressed. Cash is a great answer to a whole lot of basic commerce, small scale, freedom style, between adults just adulting. The problem IS businesses refusing cash. The public really does not benefit and we have not shown we are able to avoid abusing electronics. One day maybe. Right now? Not a chance. Cash remains necessary and the costs are not crazy enough to warrant all the abus…
> The problem IS businesses refusing cash. The public really does not benefit I benefit quite a lot from not having to use cash. I pay all my bills with credit cards. That means I can do it remotely, taking a few minutes a month, without having to leave my house. Having to pay each bill in person, in cash, would be a huge cost to me in time and effort. And if the companies I'm paying those bills to had to have the pe…
Just because a business has to accept cash, does not mean every transaction must be cash.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
independent vendors use square instead of cash.
It's the opposite in my experience. If I go to the welding shop, it's cash only. Similar for other local shops that I frequent.
I'd be surprised if that were the norm in most places in the US. I have a $20 bill stuck in my wallet--which I carry mostly as a backup in case something goes wonky with my phone--but I mostly don't carry cash except on trips and I expect I'm more careful than many.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#134The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. In the medium to long term it's simply incompatible with any reasonable definition of freedom. Surveillance is bad enough, but a system that allows governments to arbitrarily "turn off" thousands or millions of people at the push of a button is too powerful to not be abused. Even the mere existence of such a system has a chilling effect. Which I suspect is precisel…
Carrying cash is exactly how you lose it all to police corruption, sometimes called civil asset forfeiture. Cash is no answer without sufficient legal protections. And if you have sufficient legal protections, cash mostly just buys you inconvenience. The problem isn't businesses going cashless. The problem is leaving structural control over money to profit-seeking enterprises.
>Carrying cash is exactly how you lose it all to police corruption, sometimes called civil asset forfeiture.
What a foolish strawman. As if people were to carry all their net worth in cash everywhere they go.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#135The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. In the medium to long term it's simply incompatible with any reasonable definition of freedom. Surveillance is bad enough, but a system that allows governments to arbitrarily "turn off" thousands or millions of people at the push of a button is too powerful to not be abused. Even the mere existence of such a system has a chilling effect. Which I suspect is precisel…
Carrying cash is exactly how you lose it all to police corruption, sometimes called civil asset forfeiture. Cash is no answer without sufficient legal protections. And if you have sufficient legal protections, cash mostly just buys you inconvenience. The problem isn't businesses going cashless. The problem is leaving structural control over money to profit-seeking enterprises.
From what I can see, your comment doesn't address the parent's comment at all. Government is not a "profit-seeking enterprise," it's a monopoly on violence. That is an enormous difference. I am not sure why you focus so much on businesses.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, you're just not thinking about it. Trivial solution: I walk to bank some day once a month, give them cash, give them account numbers, sent. It'd be done in all of ten minutes. Does it exist where you live? Maybe, maybe not. Hell, if I knew you I'd do it for you, I'd enjoy obfuscating my accounts. And no-one is saying that literally every transaction has to be done in cash, just that it should be _possible_ to do…
> Trivial solution: I walk to bank some day once a month, give them cash, give them account numbers, sent. It'd be done in all of ten minutes. I've never heard of any bank offering that service. > no-one is saying that literally every transaction has to be done in cash, just that it should be _possible_ to do so. Agreed. But it should also be recognized that there are many people who have good reasons to use payment…
Sure, if you sit at your desk all month, never visit a high street, and also can't use a postbox, this is an unsolvable problem. Got me.
I'm out yo, physical interactions are better than this GPT-3 shite.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. No, that battle is lost. Cashless is easier and more convenient, it's hard to beat that. We need more constitutional human rights. It's not okay to take or freeze somebody's money/property without any court decision. Edit: some of the answers assume that I'm against cash or that by saying "battle is lost" I mean cash is gone; My point of "cashless winning" is tha…
> No, that battle is lost. Cashless is easier and more convenient. Incorrect, the battle is partly won in several U.S. cities (including NYC & SF) which passed laws to mandate acceptance of cash. However, cash-acceptance laws were mostly motivated by the unbanked, who are now being used to justify the introduction of nation-state CBDCs. China's CBDC is two-tier and preserves retail bank competition. People close to t…
> the battle is partly won in several U.S. cities (including NYC & SF) which passed laws to mandate acceptance of cash
In SF, despite the laws, many businesses openly had a no-cash policy once the pandemic started. "Sorry, Credit Cards Only. Touching money might transmit Covid" is too easy of an argument, even though it's essentially a non-concern now. And I haven't seen businesses go back to accepting cash as lockdowns have ended. Will be interesting to see if SF authorities actually try to enforce this law.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#138Exactly correct. Anyone who is applauding this, just imagine the opposite political party in power using this against you or organizations you support. This is why no one should have been happy when executive orders became the norm in the US and congress did nothing. This is how you lose a senate and gain a Caesar, and look what happen to Rome eventually… Debanking someone who can now no longer pay for thier own defe…
> Anyone who is applauding this, just imagine the opposite political party in power using this against you or organizations you support.
It was the opposite political party, the Conservative under PM Brian Mulroney, who wrote the Emergencies Act in the first place.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act#Legislative_hi...
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, you're just not thinking about it. Trivial solution: I walk to bank some day once a month, give them cash, give them account numbers, sent. It'd be done in all of ten minutes. Does it exist where you live? Maybe, maybe not. Hell, if I knew you I'd do it for you, I'd enjoy obfuscating my accounts. And no-one is saying that literally every transaction has to be done in cash, just that it should be _possible_ to do…
> Trivial solution: I walk to bank some day once a month, give them cash, give them account numbers, sent. It'd be done in all of ten minutes. I've never heard of any bank offering that service. > no-one is saying that literally every transaction has to be done in cash, just that it should be _possible_ to do so. Agreed. But it should also be recognized that there are many people who have good reasons to use payment…
> If I have to go pay my bills in person, I have to move me, not just some pieces of paper.
Coming soon for this market, "brain in a jar". Upload your consciousness into an Altered Carbon simulation, Source Code time loop or immortal-gaming-AI Daemon.
After gig economy workers unionize and raise delivery fees, hopefully they won't hire a mercenary army to enforce Code of Customer Conduct.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Carrying cash is exactly how you lose it all to police corruption, sometimes called civil asset forfeiture. Cash is no answer without sufficient legal protections. And if you have sufficient legal protections, cash mostly just buys you inconvenience. The problem isn't businesses going cashless. The problem is leaving structural control over money to profit-seeking enterprises.
Some developed societies don't actually make it legal to rob you as long as you wear a police uniform.
I'm not fully understanding your point. Are you saying that we shouldn't have saner laws in Canada because a country somewhere else struggles with corruption?