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IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

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Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#31

Post by bonestamp2 »

techsupporter wrote: post #25
bonestamp2 wrote: post #11

If you use Customs and Border Patrol's trusted traveler programs (or some other gov sites), you may already have a login.gov account since that is what they have been using for a few years now.

I just wonder what kind of extra hoops we'll have to go through to use an existing login.gov account with the IRS. I read in some article somewhere that the IRS didn't use login.gov because it isn't "as verified" or some kind of thing as the IRS needs. Yet the reason I have a login.gov account is for my NEXUS enrollment which means I've been fingerprinted, background checked, had my passport number linked, and been i…

Yes, same here... background checked by two countries! Not to mention iris scanned, and they even passports from two countries for me. Hopefully it's not too onerous, like you said... they can be pretty damned sure who we are at this point.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#32

Post by dpratt »

zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

The top entry for the list of cumulative non-disease or old age causes of death in the 20th century is "murdered by own government". Anything we can do to help prevent that is a good thing.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#33

Post by mdb31 »

hanniabu wrote: post #20
mdb31 wrote: post #15

I'm a foreigner (yes, I know, sorry, sorry) who is a "US Person" and thus needs to (and, to be perfectly clear, is happy to, I'm sorry, I'm not-sorry, I'm sorry about being not-sorry?) pay US income tax. The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with, and in this I'm comparing the US to countries like Rwanda, where, for some weird reason, I'm also required to pay taxes. Getting an ITIN (sort-of like…

> The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with That's by design

Yes, but WHY?

I mean, I'm happy to pay my US taxes. Heck, I'm even happy to pay someone to pay my US taxes. But... neither of those options seem to work?

I mean, just to back to Rwanda: it's an east-African country that is pretty much a dictatorship and had a real-life genocide less than 20 years ago.

Yet, in Rwanda, I can just use my native cell phone number as my tax identifier, pay then what I need to pay, and be done with it.

In the US, I am probably known under a dozen ITINs, and literally none of that is my fault: it's just that the IRS agents that created those ITINs were unaware of, like, any spelling alphabet ever. Even ITINs created using a fax (that's a TIFF-over-POTS, for you millennials) got completely misspelled.

And now I'm supposed to spend tens of thousands of dollars to prove I've paid my taxes?

OK, now I now the answer to my initial question...

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#34

Post by verelo »

mdb31 wrote: post #15

I'm a foreigner (yes, I know, sorry, sorry) who is a "US Person" and thus needs to (and, to be perfectly clear, is happy to, I'm sorry, I'm not-sorry, I'm sorry about being not-sorry?) pay US income tax. The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with, and in this I'm comparing the US to countries like Rwanda, where, for some weird reason, I'm also required to pay taxes. Getting an ITIN (sort-of like…

Ah yes. Good to know that it’s not just the TSA i should dislike. I’m reminded of the line Logan Roy uses on Succession, something along the lines of “when i arrived in America there was nothing these people couldn’t do. Now they’ve pissed it all away”. Feels like it’ll be hard to see the US continue to be a major player unless it can get out of its own away at some point.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#35

Post by brimble »

jcadam wrote: post #14
zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

The main issue is if it's required. Not so worried about myself - I'm a veteran which means my fingerprints and DNA are already on file with the feds somewhere :), but US Citizens with no particular connection to the federal government absolutely shouldn't have to need a "National ID."

We already need it. That's just the modern economy/world. So we get shitty ad-hoc solutions with bad security that waste tons of time and money, instead of a good one, because people are afraid of the good one. Not having a solution isn't an option.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#36

Post by kkielhofner »

zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

When it comes down to it the US has a fear driven culture, down to what essentially becomes paranoia.

US violent crime statistics are at near all-time lows. Yet I know many, many people that will not leave their house without at least one firearm. This is in small towns that haven't seen a violent crime justifying the use of deadly force in many years. Many of these same people refuse to "live in fear" of the coronavirus yet they live essentially petrified of violent crime to the point of carrying a deadly weapon for self-defense on their person at all times (not to mention the likely hundreds-thousands of rounds of ammunition and small arsenal they keep at home).

We're terrified of a national ID "because big brother" yet almost no one cared or batted an eye at the Snowden revelations "because terrorism". 9/11 was 20 years ago and killed 3,000 people. Tragedy for sure but never before in human history has the trajectory and cultural makeup of a country (let alone a superpower) been so drastically altered by what is essentially a rounding error in terms of deaths in two decades. If warrantlessly surveilling an entire population isn't big government/brother I don't know what is.

The ATF isn't allowed to have a searchable database because "the government is going to take away our guns" yet your entire life is accessible to the NSA.

It's truly bizarre.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#37

Post by lmkg »

hanniabu wrote: post #20
mdb31 wrote: post #15

I'm a foreigner (yes, I know, sorry, sorry) who is a "US Person" and thus needs to (and, to be perfectly clear, is happy to, I'm sorry, I'm not-sorry, I'm sorry about being not-sorry?) pay US income tax. The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with, and in this I'm comparing the US to countries like Rwanda, where, for some weird reason, I'm also required to pay taxes. Getting an ITIN (sort-of like…

> The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with That's by design

> That's by design

It actually is, too. There are two large, influential groups of stakeholders who purposefully lobby for a painful user experience.

The first, of course, is the tax-prep industry (e.g. Intuit/TurboTax and H&R Block). They make more money when people get fed up with bullshit and pay someone else to deal with it.

The second is the anti-tax activists. If taxes exist, they want the process of taxation to be painful. Not just in terms of the dollar amount. They want people to have an active and visceral reaction to taxes. As such, they lobby against anything streamlining taxes and push for the process to be as high-friction and frustrating as possible.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#38

Post by joshstrange »

jcadam wrote: post #14
zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

The main issue is if it's required. Not so worried about myself - I'm a veteran which means my fingerprints and DNA are already on file with the feds somewhere :), but US Citizens with no particular connection to the federal government absolutely shouldn't have to need a "National ID."

> US Citizens with no particular connection to the federal government absolutely shouldn't have to need a "National ID."

Hard disagree. If you live in the US you have a connection to the federal government. I'm not saying everyone should have fingerprints or DNA on file but a national ID is something I'm fully behind. The shit show that is social security numbers, KYC, and other ways to identify a person are such a pain and for literally no good reason that I can see.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#39

Post by BoorishBears »

mdb31 wrote: post #15

I'm a foreigner (yes, I know, sorry, sorry) who is a "US Person" and thus needs to (and, to be perfectly clear, is happy to, I'm sorry, I'm not-sorry, I'm sorry about being not-sorry?) pay US income tax. The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with, and in this I'm comparing the US to countries like Rwanda, where, for some weird reason, I'm also required to pay taxes. Getting an ITIN (sort-of like…

Linguists might study that intro to see how much passive aggression you can fit in one sentence...

I think when being passive aggressive starts to harm readability, maybe you should just say what you're trying to say.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#40

Post by plandis »

mdb31 wrote: post #33
hanniabu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The IRS system is, by far, the worst I've ever had to deal with That's by design

Yes, but WHY? I mean, I'm happy to pay my US taxes. Heck, I'm even happy to pay someone to pay my US taxes. But... neither of those options seem to work? I mean, just to back to Rwanda: it's an east-African country that is pretty much a dictatorship and had a real-life genocide less than 20 years ago. Yet, in Rwanda, I can just use my native cell phone number as my tax identifier, pay then what I need to pay, and be…

There are some groups who oppose effectively all taxes and seek to make paying tax as hard as possible so that other people will agree with them that taxes are a pain. For example see Americans for Tax Reform working to torpedo California’s push to simplify state taxes a few years back.

You also have corporate interests that profit from convoluted tax filing and lobby the government to keep it confusing so individuals continue to use their products.

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