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Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

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61–70 of 470 posts

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#61

Remember like a week ago when the Germany navy said the idea that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine was nonsense? Fools.

It was about invading Ukraine and especially Kiev. The Ukrainian government had lost the control about the region Russia now openly operates in. They already did so before though.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#62
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't the German navy, it was the ranking admiral It he doesn't speak for the Germany navy then who does? Were the navy's intelligence reports wrong or was he briefed wrong or does he not believe his own intelligence people? What if he'd been still been in charge now? Would he still deny it was happening? All possibilities point to something extremely foolish going on. Absolutely bizarre situation. I wonder wha…

This honestly just isn't that significant. Germany's navy, and indeed, German military forces generally, are not relevant to this crisis and will play basically zero part in it. So all of this analysis and blame-gaming you're trying to do just are not of much import.

I wonder what contingencies the Germany navy is planned for and capable of handling, if they couldn't even get their heads around this being a possibility?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#63
post #9

That is not remotely pulling the plug. This is "thinking about it" again. They already stopped accreditation a few weeks ago, otherwise it would already transport gas as the pipeline is already filled. They just say that they have officially stopped the process which they more or less already did. I think in a year it might come online again if the news cycle is on another topic. Overall it will be much more expensiv…

I think the one that will profit most is China, being the remaining trade partner in a much similar way when most of the world imposed sanctions against north Korea. At the same time this will reduce the impact on prices, since as long China is connected to the global economy then the global supply will still increase when they buy from Russia. There will be costs associated with transportation for EU, be that from C…

I don't think China benefited per se (let alone profited) by being the only one with economic ties to North Korea. As I understand it it's a pretty parasitic relationship. China's reason to help North Korea is more so political and territorial than economic.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#64
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is one of the few large sources of income in Russia. Reducing the gas trade is one of the few really direct sanctions possible. Even if it comes at a price, it is way better than to start shooting.

This is a reason sanctions don't work as people expect. China will simply buy those valuable gas. I do acknowledge that there would be transportation costs. In the end, Europe will suffer more and China will be happier. And, currently, with the price hike on gas, I think the EU will face more problems. Geopolitics is not a game of morality, rather it's a game of logic. China, the US, and Russia seem to be playing ver…

Have you followed the value of the ruble and the cost on Russian personal income and GDP since the sanctions after the Crimean invasion? They've been highly effective by almost all measures, the Russian economy is dependent on European LNG and oil purchasing, and the initial 2022 sanctions have sent the Russian markets spiraling further.

Here's a paper on their effectiveness if you don't believe me, Europe has more than just gas to power its economy - unlike Russia: https://www.jois.eu/files/2_481_Tyll%20et%20al.pdf

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#65

That's dumb. What they should do instead is tax the gas that will flow through North Stream 2 to be as expensive as the one going through other routes and transfer this tax directly to Ukraine budget as aid let's say for the next 30 years, irrevocably. And possibly partially to Poland because it has very similar concerns but to a lesser degree than Ukraine.

Why then build the pipeline in the first place?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#66

Remember like a week ago when the Germany navy said the idea that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine was nonsense? Fools.

It was about invading Ukraine and especially Kiev. The Ukrainian government had lost the control about the region Russia now openly operates in. They already did so before though.

"Is Russia really interested in having a tiny strip of Ukraine’s soil? No. Or to integrate it in the country? No, this is nonsense."

That's exactly what is happening.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#67
post #14
post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

Gas is one of the few large sources of income in Russia. Reducing the gas trade is one of the few really direct sanctions possible. Even if it comes at a price, it is way better than to start shooting.

This will very likely increase gas prices around the world and they have enough consumers. They don't even have to fear closure of NS2 as a state, the company and investors might, but they will get compensated pretty extensively by mostly European tax payers. If that sound like strategy for you, it is a pretty stupid one.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#68
post #34
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dead for all purposes unless the political climate changes radically. Whatever the Russian plans for a gas supplier to Germany were, they are limited to what the existing pipelines can deliver. I hope, we can reduce the dependency on Russian gas quickly, even if it means the additional effort of shipping LNG from the US or other sources. Mid-term it should be highest priority to get rid of fossil fuels as quick…

It's been dead for a very long time. It's a carrot that Russia was never going to get. If Scholz is smart (which I doubt) he'll restart/keep open the nuclear power plants and cut taxes on gas/electricity for households to neutralise the price hikes.

Germany needs gas today, not after n years, so making a nuclear plant today is not a good solution. We should be investing in small nuclear plants that China is making for future needs. Restarting old nuclear plants is not solving the problem because it is expensive. And I highly doubt the government would cut taxes. And, buying oil from other countries is expensive.

This probably explains why Germany is not supporting Ukraine with fists. If they make Russia angry, the Germans will be enemies of Germany due to social unrest. This is a decision of morality vs economics, and the government will choose economics. I think for now, just like China, Germany is just stopping to appease the mass. But after a month they will take Russian gas.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#69
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't the German navy, it was the ranking admiral which had been removed from office immediately, as there was a strong disagreement with his statements.

> It wasn't the German navy, it was the ranking admiral It he doesn't speak for the Germany navy then who does? Were the navy's intelligence reports wrong or was he briefed wrong or does he not believe his own intelligence people? What if he'd been still been in charge now? Would he still deny it was happening? All possibilities point to something extremely foolish going on. Absolutely bizarre situation. I wonder wha…

[deleted]

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#70

A related report from the BBC (published a few days ago): Europe gas prices: How far is Russia responsible? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58888451 Some key points in the BBC article: - Russia supplies about 40% of the EU’s natural gas imports. Most of the rest comes from Norway and Algeria. - Russia sends gas to Europe through several main pipelines - such as the Nord Stream, the Yamal-Europe and the Brotherhood (see th…

>This leads to the conclusion that Gazprom is supplying the volumes... under its long-term contracts - but it is not providing additional volumes beyond those contracts," says Jack Sharples, of the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies.

Question is, was gas ordered? I doubt anyone delivers without order. According to Gazprom the orders came only february 2nd.

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