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I was wrong, we need crypto

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Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#281

Post by qalmakka »

datadata wrote: post #62
qalmakka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you woke up one day set on the intention of digging a tunnel to China in your backyard by only using cutlery. Would throwing more people in the hole armed with spoons fix the inherent issues with your project? The reason why there are lots of experts criticizing the current implementations and crypto concepts is because it's vastly easier to realize the flaws in one's idea than coming up with a new proposal.…

In the digging example, the goal is to complete the tunnel. If the tunnel is not completed, the project would be a failure. You say that PoW works and makes cryptocurrency doable, yet you conclude that it is a failure. But you don't define what the goal of it is. What specific goal would you want crypto to achieve to falsify your belief that it is a failure?

PoW makes cryptocurrencies doable (i.e. they somewhat work), but not viable. PoW only simulates the creation of value, it does not create it. Yes, sure, fiat currency has also its value made out of thin air, but that value often corresponds to the strength of country's government, economy or fiscal system. Sure, for instance the Yen may become hyper or underinflated, but as long as Japan is an industrial power it's very likely you want Yens to trade with Japan, to travel there, ... and that the Japanese government will do what it must be done on the international markets to keep the value of its currency stable. This gives "real" fiat currency a link with the real economy.

Can you say the same for cryptocurrency? Where does the value of a cryptocurrency come from? The answer is "from its scarcity", but scarcity itself doesn't make something valuable. What makes Bitcoin valuable is its tradeability with real world currencies, such as the Euro and the Dollar, and the fact that people want to spend them to get Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a real currency, is just a very complicated bank with extra steps, based on an asset whose value basically depends by the biggest Ponzi scheme ever known to man.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#282

Post by imtringued »

erulabs wrote: post #214
medvezhenok wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can also criminalize accepting Bitcoin for payment for goods, in which case you would have no choice but to convert back to dollars (and taxes will likely always be paid in dollars anyway)

And then there would be a black market, immediately. Prohibition tends to be exceptionally violent. The point being: using a decentralized currency makes authoritarianism harder. This is not exactly a radical idea: foreign currencies have very often been banned from use in dictatorships. Why people kick back on "internet money" being a tool to use against abusive governments is strange: It's more or less it's only re…

Black market? I thought Bitcoin is a "store of value" for investors? Those investors want legitimacy so grandmas buy Bitcoin.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#283

Post by mateuszf »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #257
mateuszf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, so crypto is just like fiat but without regulations or safe guards or insurance. That's why I'm not a fan of crypto in general, only of Bitcoin > It's hard to manipulate the quantity of bitcoin --- not so hard to manipulate the price of bitcoin. True, but I guess it's easy to do that with every small market. I'd imagine the bigger the market capitalization, number of participants the harder it would be to mani…

True, but I guess it's easy to do that with every small market. It's pretty easy when you can mint Tethers and keep the price pegged at $1 USD no matter how many you print and use them to buy/inflate the price of bitcoin.

Again, not issue with Bitcoin but other crypto. If you can "make" money, you can buy anything.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#284

Post by janandonly »

We don't need "crypto" but we do need Bitcoin.

From the article:

> And that it was the Canadians who brought this on? You might as well have told me that it was really the Care Bears who ran Abu Ghraib.

> Especially since I had some sympathy with fears projected by the US progressive left who spent four years fretting Trump might pull stunts like these. Then it turns out that the worries of an authoritarian overreach would be fulfilled by Trudeau to the North instead? Who's writing this script? M. Night Shyamalan?

> Meanwhile, plenty of American commentators are cheering this on. Those terrible, horrible, no-good, very-bad truckers got what they deserved! To protest for a repeal of pandemic restrictions, so as to live the life enjoyed in Denmark by a population less vaccinated than the Canadians? That's clearly beyond the pale!

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#286

Post by kaffee »

The most recent episode (#118) of Law Bytes with Michael Geist (a respected Canadian law professor) goes into the legal nitty gritty about the use of the Emergency Measures Act.

Here's the link: https://tunein.com/podcasts/Technology-Podcasts/Law-Bytes-A-...

Having just listened to it, I will say the restrictions on Canadians using the banking system to donate to the truckers sound sweeping.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#287

Post by koonsolo »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #255
koonsolo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trusting the unregulated gatekeepers. Mine your own coins, and buy stuff with crypto. I don't see why you need to pass through gatekeepers. And when you can buy things with crypto, there is also another end that sells things for crypto. Ok, maybe it's a minority, but it serves the niche pretty well.

The people who sell you stuff usually need guidance on pricing and they will usually want to quickly move the money to a more stable currency once the sale is made. For all this, they go to the gatekeepers. And likewise, you need to decide if the price you're about to pay is reasonable and fair. And for this, you go to the gatekeepers --- because there is no reasonable alternative. Crypto can't escape the influence o…

Crypto can work perfectly fine without a link to fiat. Funnily even stablecoins don't need fiat (see Terra's UST).

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#288

Post by nathanielks »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #264
bryanlarsen wrote: post #127

Canadians have a right to protest. Canadians also have a right to the enjoyment of their property. The former does not override the latter, and the latter was severely infringed upon by the occupiers. These protests caused hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage. There is a $300M lawsuit against the occupiers in Ottawa, similar ones will happen against the occupiers of the Ambassador bridge. The bank accounts…

It's amazing to me the rhetoric used regarding people going honk honk, when just a year ago we were downplaying the burning and looting of cities, and brushing the deaths that happened in those protests under the rug.

I think you missed the part where people were being sleep deprived. It's not just a bit of honk honk lulz.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#289

Post by loudtieblahblah »

nathanielks wrote: post #288
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me the rhetoric used regarding people going honk honk, when just a year ago we were downplaying the burning and looting of cities, and brushing the deaths that happened in those protests under the rug.

I think you missed the part where people were being sleep deprived . It's not just a bit of honk honk lulz.

You missed the part where businesses were burnt to the ground and in some cases people were burnt alive inside those business

So spare me your pity on their sleeplessness.

Its hardly comparable.

And it's amazing what gets the sympathy based on nothing more than what political wing finds that pity advantageous as opposed to inconvenient

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#290

Post by jqpabc123 »

imtringued wrote: post #280
jqpabc123 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart people recognize that the base premise is simply unworkable. The idea that anyone can create money out of electrons is really no better than the idea that anyone can create money out of paper. There is no real reason to believe the first will be any more successful than the second. There are close to 10,000 different cryptocurrencies currently in use. And the number is increasing all the time. You don't have to…

Smart people recognize that money can never be anything but a consensual agreement between humans. How you symbolize that agreement is actually irrelevant. There is no limit to the agreements that humans can make so the idea of limiting them by decree is absurd. The most problematic part is that holding onto money is a onesided arrangement that requires no consent or agreement. You can literally leave the other party…

There is no limit to the agreements that humans can make so the idea of limiting them by decree is absurd.

No one is limiting the number of cryptocurrencies. If you and your friends want to make your own "CryptoNickel" currency, go for it. No one is stopping you.

No one is stopping others from doing the same too --- and therein lies the problem --- the exercise is self defeating outside your unique circle of friends. Just a wild guess but you probably won't be using "CryptoNickel" to pay rent or buy groceries. Why is this?

Because as I noted above, "CryptoNickel" is missing essential elements of a truly functional currency --- trust and consensus --- not just among your friends but society at large. And a distributed electronic accounting system is no substitute for these missing elements.

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