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I was wrong, we need crypto

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Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#61

Post by lowkey »

Comevius wrote: post #38
csee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then arrest the people who are breaking the laws and blockading critical infrastructure, and charge them with a criminal offence. The BLM protests also saw many criminal elements that did looting and assaults. None of this is a valid argument for freezing accounts of people "involved" without due process.

The Emergencies Act is specifically for when there is an urgent and critical public order emergency. It's invocation is going to be ratified by the Parlaiment today. The police unfortunately dropped the ball, they tried that option too. But just arresting specific people also wasn't enough. Polling shows that the majority of Canadians supported the use of the act.

Notably, the War Measures Act - which is the original act that was rebranded as the Emergencies Act in 1988 - has only ever been put into effect 3 times in history.

1. WWI

2. WWII

3. FLQ Crisis - an incident that included the kidnapping of federal ministers by a terrorist organization

By contrast, this protest has been incredibly peaceful when compared to other similar protests or occupations. There is a debate happening in parliament right now on whether or not to extend the Emergency powers now that the government has successfully cleared the protestors and taken back control of downtown Ottawa.

I personally don't believe this incident warranted the suspension of civil liberties. It isn't clear to me that the government did what they could to apply the existing laws on the books. If anything the biggest issue was that the Ottawa police appeared reluctant to enforce existing laws on the protestors. That is a different issue and does not justify the imposition of the Emergency act.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#62

Post by datadata »

qalmakka wrote: post #56
dylkil wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second problem is some of the smartest people in the world rather point out its flaws than recognise the potential and help fix the flaws

Imagine you woke up one day set on the intention of digging a tunnel to China in your backyard by only using cutlery. Would throwing more people in the hole armed with spoons fix the inherent issues with your project? The reason why there are lots of experts criticizing the current implementations and crypto concepts is because it's vastly easier to realize the flaws in one's idea than coming up with a new proposal.…

In the digging example, the goal is to complete the tunnel. If the tunnel is not completed, the project would be a failure.

You say that PoW works and makes cryptocurrency doable, yet you conclude that it is a failure. But you don't define what the goal of it is. What specific goal would you want crypto to achieve to falsify your belief that it is a failure?

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#63

Post by csee »

h2odragon wrote: post #29
dylkil wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the crypto is in the users wallet (i.e. not on some crypto exchange) the canadian government cannot seize it without asking the user to sign a transaction transferring them the crypto. We are 13 years on from bitcoins inception, and we are on a tech board, how this is still not clear to people boggles me.

How many crypto "owners" don't have a wallet? What do those who do have one do when they get told "cough up the keys or go to jail"? "Crypto" is not some magic "laws don't apply" wand.

Many of them will if the calculus changes and they think the assets may be seized at any moment. Or, we will see the rise of custodians based in countries that won't respect requests from US et al to freeze accounts.

People mostly don't bother with any of this right now because it hasn't been a real threat.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#64

Post by [deleted] »

Comevius wrote: post #15
csee wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article as connecting (not conflating) the two. He's saying that the government can no longer be trusted with this power, as evidenced by this particular misuse, and they therefore should lose that ability.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#65

Post by jqpabc123 »

dylkil wrote: post #55
qalmakka wrote: post #52

The problem with cryptocurrencies is not the _idea_ per se, it's that every current and proposed implementation is deeply flawed and utterly fails to deliver on what it promises, to the point that crypto mostly stands afloat only as a mean to enable economical speculation and to facilitate unregulated and illegal transactions. I also agree with the idea that teleportation and faster-than-light travel would be extreme…

The second problem is some of the smartest people in the world rather point out its flaws than recognise the potential and help fix the flaws

Smart people recognize that the base premise is simply unworkable.

The idea that anyone can create money out of electrons is really no better than the idea that anyone can create money out of paper. There is no real reason to believe the first will be any more successful than the second.

There are close to 10,000 different cryptocurrencies currently in use. And the number is increasing all the time. You don't have to be really smart to see that over time, these are all likely to tend toward the same value. The essential elements that will seal their fate --- trust and consensus --- or the lack thereof.

The part of the idea that does have some merit is "digital" currency. The Fed is working on it. And when it arrives, crypto will likely vanish back into the electronic ether from whence it sprang.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#67

Post by Comevius »

lowkey wrote: post #61
Comevius wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Emergencies Act is specifically for when there is an urgent and critical public order emergency. It's invocation is going to be ratified by the Parlaiment today. The police unfortunately dropped the ball, they tried that option too. But just arresting specific people also wasn't enough. Polling shows that the majority of Canadians supported the use of the act.

Notably, the War Measures Act - which is the original act that was rebranded as the Emergencies Act in 1988 - has only ever been put into effect 3 times in history. 1. WWI 2. WWII 3. FLQ Crisis - an incident that included the kidnapping of federal ministers by a terrorist organization By contrast, this protest has been incredibly peaceful when compared to other similar protests or occupations. There is a debate happe…

This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Holding critical infrastructure hostage, threatening the government and harassing people is not peaceful.

Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job.

The government did not have a clear picture or control over the situation. A foreign organization could have used it to supply these people, which is what happened. This was a big hole in Canada's national security.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#68

Post by jl2718 »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #32
dylkil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you end up trusting the unregulated gatekeepers to the block chain --- the exchanges. how exactly are exchanges gatekeepers? blockchains would function completely fine without exchanges. In fact, on chain exchanges like uniswap and 0x require zero trust whatsoever.

In fact, on chain exchanges like uniswap and 0x require zero trust whatsoever. Who determines how much your crypto is worth? Does uniswap do this? No, not on their own. They can't --- their daily trading volume is too small. They are literally forced to follow the "marketplace". The 800lb gorillas that make up the crypto "marketplace" are the centralized exchanges --- Binance and others. They set the price using what…

Uniswap is algorithmic liquidity. It doesn't "follow" anybody. It is true that the exchanges have more volume, but that is not necessarily 'real' volume.

The operating model of a centralized exchange is that they get paid to both provide and consume liquidity, so much of the volume is their own. On Uniswap, there is no privileged entity, so everybody pays to consume liquidity. This is a huge damper on volumes.

Note that there are MEV forks that also massively increase the Uniswap volume too, but they have to pay at least the trade fee on both sides of a sandwich.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#69

Post by woodrow »

lowkey wrote: post #59
woodrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that these financial controls are about limiting access to donations received from outside of Canada —- over half of the contributions to GiveSendGo were _not_ from Canadians. Canada has the right (just as the US does) to limit foreign influence in its domestic affairs and its democratically elected government is exercising that right.

But the freezing of accounts wasn't limited to foreign donors, was it? It wasn't even limited to those who actually broke any laws. Multiple incidents have been reported by Canadians who donated as little as $50 to the protest BEFORE it was declared illegal, having their bank accounts frozen without any formal charges. Given that they are not even charging these people with crimes, they are denied due process and the…

Canada obviously doesn't have jurisdiction over foreign donors, so depending on how GiveSendGo implemented their money transmission flows it may not have been possible for the government to distinguish between domestic and foreign financing sources. I agree that domestic money flowing within Canada (to e.g. support Charter-protected actions of others) should not be impeded without a higher degree of scrutiny.

This said, I love Canada and don't believe Canada should tolerate one iota foreign interference in our domestic affairs, especially if it sows division or reduces trust in Canada's institutions. Whether you believe the blockading of border crossings, occupation of Parliament Hill, and disruption of peace in Ottawa were peaceful protests or unlawful assemblies, they were amplified and prolonged by foreign money. Canada should rightly do what it takes to nip foreign influence in the bud.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#70

Post by mateuszf »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #32
dylkil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you end up trusting the unregulated gatekeepers to the block chain --- the exchanges. how exactly are exchanges gatekeepers? blockchains would function completely fine without exchanges. In fact, on chain exchanges like uniswap and 0x require zero trust whatsoever.

In fact, on chain exchanges like uniswap and 0x require zero trust whatsoever. Who determines how much your crypto is worth? Does uniswap do this? No, not on their own. They can't --- their daily trading volume is too small. They are literally forced to follow the "marketplace". The 800lb gorillas that make up the crypto "marketplace" are the centralized exchanges --- Binance and others. They set the price using what…

> Who determines how much your crypto is worth?

As with other things - the people who want or don't want to buy it.

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