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Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

adithyabalaji.com

31–40 of 96 posts

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#31
Sleep is about more than just measuring the time you were asleep. The amount of time spent in N3/4 (Deep Sleep) and REM sleep is very important.

The author is using sleep cycle on his phone, which is not a good method of tracking sleep cycles. He says "their ability to wake me in “non-deep” sleep pretty spot on" - you're not in deep sleep in the morning anyway, or very unlikely. So any "app" has a good chance of waking you from REM or N1/2.

We've been building a headband which monitors your sleep state, and uses sound to improve your sleep performance. Literally, improving the neurological function of your brain while you sleep.

I used one of our early prototypes to win the Sleep World Championships (https://soundmind.co/blog/neurohacking-the-world-sleep-champ...).

We're currently working on improving the fit and comfort before finalizing industrial design. You can find out more, and join the waitlist at https://soundmind.co

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#32

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

It's ok to try to improve your sleep. But I agree that obsessing over optimizing your sleep can cause issues. I used to get sleep anxiety and would have trouble sleeping. Even sleeping pills didn't work. Luckily I made the realization pretty quickly. I still track but I don't obsess about getting X hours of sleep and such. If I lose some sleep, I know I can just make up for it. Being able to work at home does make this a lot easier, to be fair.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#33

I feel like any kind of sleep tracking app could only make things worse for my own situation (which I'm guessing is not particularly uncommon), the root of which seems to be around making too much of a big deal about sleep, getting increasingly anxious as I fail to fall asleep, not being able to help but monitor whether I am falling asleep or not etc. When I sleep best are the nights I forget to be concerned about it…

Normally I avoid playing armchair psychologist— I don’t even own an armchair, let alone any significant psychological training. However, I experience anxiety comorbidly with a broader condition I didn’t recognize until 40, and your cycle feels quite familiar. If it is anxiety, a therapist could likely help you implement some CBT exercises to quickly, drastically, and permanently address the symptoms, without drugs, i…

Echoing this, the GP comment was very familiar. I suffer from insomnia related to a mood disorder, and had tried the app approach. What worked best was some time with a psychologist using CBT & DBT methods. Note that DBT likely is only useful in certain circumstances, but CBT strategies will be useful to nearly everyone, and especially align with the type of person who reads this site.

I'd always poo-poohed counseling, but finding a good counselor who could offer more than a sympathetic ear was key. There are definitely great counselors, and a PhD isn't required, but I would recommend seeking out a psychologist. Especially if you are motivated and want to be involved with your therapy, a psychologist has the training and background to be exceedingly helpful. Note that this will cost more, but in my experience it is worth it.

Also note that you don't need to be crazy or suffering from any mental disorder for them to be helpful. Think of it as the same as employing a business strategy consultant. They are there to help you develop more beneficial strategies for thinking and reacting to your daily life, and sleep is just one factor. It sounds trite, but developing different ways of thinking and reacting to problems is huge. Unfortunately, there aren't one-size solutions, so what worked for me likely isn't helpful advice. But for the average reader of this site, seeking out a psychologist vs a regular counselor is money well spent.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#34

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

What is important is having a fixed bedtime/wake time so your circadian rhythm settles in. How much sleep you can get in a night? Lucky dip, sometimes you just can't.

Matthew Walker's book is the one I'd go to.

Always find it weird how blog oriented a lot of information has become.

If you want to know something... why not find the best researcher in the field and get their book.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#35
I track sleep simply to note the amount, not quality. I tried a number of sleep trackers - Android apps, smartwatches - all of the "automated" solutions felt having spotty precision. Not talking about minutes, but hours, when I was staring at my phone or been awake without moving. The only precise auto trackers seem to be bulky headbands.

The most comfortable method I found is simply manual button pushing. I track my phone usage, and log time between screen-on time (+-10m to account for time to actually fall asleep). When I can't sleep for longer times, or get up for toilet, I quickly press the power button (phone lights up for a few sec accounting to screen time). I know this probably just _feels_ more precise and needs to have a phone around (generally not that good for sleep), but it still seems to be closer to what I experienced. It baffles me that all the gyro/heartrate based smartwatch platforms don't account for screen time this way.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#36
post #14

Interesting, I don't like my morning routine but I'm not certain about what to do about it though. I usually get water, bathroom and scroll through apps or jump on my work laptop until I figure out something to do that day. I'm not sure how to effectively use the morning, but I feel like filling it with scrolling isn't ideal

This sounds trite, but just sitting staring at nothing while waking up helps. I made it a point that my first cup of coffee is not spent in front of a screen or anything stimulating. I just try to blank out as much as possible, looking out the window or stepping outside helps. I find starting my day in the calmest manner possible helps me have better days, and picking up my phone first thing is guaranteed to make me miserable through the day.

I don't follow any sort of meditation practice, but having 10-15 minutes of just staring out at the sky helps tremendously. Honestly, staring at a wall would be about as helpful, it's mostly just about having the first bit of your day being calm and unstressful.

If I pick up my phone, first thing I see is email and slack notifications about what emergencies are happening, and that's not what I want to deal with when I've been awake for 5 minutes. Those things can wait, spending enough time to get slightly bored in the morning seems to be a better use of that time. I moved my alarm up 1/2 hour, and I feel less tired simply for being less rushed in the morning. Having to rush out the door and do things just makes me crabby all day. So simple suggestion, just try to allot a few minutes of calm at the start of the day.

I'm not a parent, but the parents I've suggested this too seemed to appreciate it even more, since early morning was their only truly calm time.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#37

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

No way! Tools like meditation, working out, micro-dosing, sleep hacking, running, mindfulness, etc can only be beneficial, just like a hammer can only hit nails and never fingers. /s

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#38

I’ve been using the WHOOP tracker for the last few months. Initially did some work to determine what my baseline was, but every morning you answer a journal (it’s most differentiating feature, imo) where you add things like alcohol, caffeine, melatonin, etc consumption and other things like airline travel, sleeping in same bed, etc. After seeing what is correlated and not, I have had an extreme increase in sleep qual…

What did you end up changing to improve your sleep quality? Based on what you wrote only cutting down on alcohol seemed like something you can change?

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#39
I've never tried the apps that claim to track your sleep, so I will not comment on those. But recently I was about to buy a consumer fitness band until I read a couple of technical reviews that show how they are all essentially worthless except for the Apple watch. Here is reviewed an iOS app but since the Apple watch is not mentioned, I don't know how precise his measurings are. IMHO the phone alone is not enough to track your sleep cycles meaningfully.

Anecdotally I've noticed that when I smoke weed I don't remember what I dreamt, every single time. I suspect it alters my sleep cycle in some way.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#40
post #34

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

What is important is having a fixed bedtime/wake time so your circadian rhythm settles in. How much sleep you can get in a night? Lucky dip, sometimes you just can't. Matthew Walker's book is the one I'd go to. Always find it weird how blog oriented a lot of information has become. If you want to know something... why not find the best researcher in the field and get their book.

> Always find it weird how blog oriented a lot of information has become. If you want to know something... why not find the best researcher in the field and get their book.

Blogs are immediate and "free". Books take time and cost money.

Think CliffsNotes (or some other equivalent) study guides. Why read the whole text and learn all the nuance and details, when you can just get straight to a particular hearline narrative

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