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Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

adithyabalaji.com

21–30 of 96 posts

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#21

I feel like any kind of sleep tracking app could only make things worse for my own situation (which I'm guessing is not particularly uncommon), the root of which seems to be around making too much of a big deal about sleep, getting increasingly anxious as I fail to fall asleep, not being able to help but monitor whether I am falling asleep or not etc. When I sleep best are the nights I forget to be concerned about it…

The only thing that’s ever worked for me is being tired enough. Physically.

We’re built to move and are surprised that sitting in a chair all day leaves us feeling restless and on edge. Kinda silly when you think about it.

When I get enough exercise, sleep is easy. You close your eyes, are bored for 5 minutes, and then you’re asleep.

Without daily exercise? Forget about it. Tossing and turning, tapping my feet all night, can’t get settled, every little thing an annoyance.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#22
post #21

I feel like any kind of sleep tracking app could only make things worse for my own situation (which I'm guessing is not particularly uncommon), the root of which seems to be around making too much of a big deal about sleep, getting increasingly anxious as I fail to fall asleep, not being able to help but monitor whether I am falling asleep or not etc. When I sleep best are the nights I forget to be concerned about it…

The only thing that’s ever worked for me is being tired enough. Physically. We’re built to move and are surprised that sitting in a chair all day leaves us feeling restless and on edge. Kinda silly when you think about it. When I get enough exercise, sleep is easy. You close your eyes, are bored for 5 minutes, and then you’re asleep. Without daily exercise? Forget about it. Tossing and turning, tapping my feet all ni…

I've experimented with this a fair bit, but my experience so far is: when I ramp up activity I see improvement in sleep, but once it becomes normal it doesn't help much. I also occasionally run into really annoying situations where I'll do some pretty heavy lifting during the day, then go to sleep knowing how important it will be for me to get rest that night—which creates the kind of self-awareness trap described above and I lay there for hours super tired but also kind of wired, tossing and turning.

Most of my experience with this has been relatively high intensity over ~1.5hrs though, not full days of physical activity (like I had with jobs in the past, landscaping or stocking groceries etc.)—but I don't have that much time to dedicate to it with the desk work I'm doing now.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that’s ever worked for me is being tired enough. Physically. We’re built to move and are surprised that sitting in a chair all day leaves us feeling restless and on edge. Kinda silly when you think about it. When I get enough exercise, sleep is easy. You close your eyes, are bored for 5 minutes, and then you’re asleep. Without daily exercise? Forget about it. Tossing and turning, tapping my feet all ni…

I've experimented with this a fair bit, but my experience so far is: when I ramp up activity I see improvement in sleep, but once it becomes normal it doesn't help much. I also occasionally run into really annoying situations where I'll do some pretty heavy lifting during the day, then go to sleep knowing how important it will be for me to get rest that night—which creates the kind of self-awareness trap described ab…

Anecdotally, I find even dedicated heavy lifting (1-1.5 hours) does not improve my sleep but similar durations of high-intensity cardio (45 minutes+) heavily improve my sleep even comparing for differing work-related stress baselines. I alternate lifts/HIIT,Tabata and do this regularly (2+ years of 5-6/week workouts) and still have reduced sleep latency times compared to before dedicated regular work-outs. My job is 100% sedentary desk job as well. Dunno if that helps.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#26

I feel like any kind of sleep tracking app could only make things worse for my own situation (which I'm guessing is not particularly uncommon), the root of which seems to be around making too much of a big deal about sleep, getting increasingly anxious as I fail to fall asleep, not being able to help but monitor whether I am falling asleep or not etc. When I sleep best are the nights I forget to be concerned about it…

Normally I avoid playing armchair psychologist— I don’t even own an armchair, let alone any significant psychological training. However, I experience anxiety comorbidly with a broader condition I didn’t recognize until 40, and your cycle feels quite familiar. If it is anxiety, a therapist could likely help you implement some CBT exercises to quickly, drastically, and permanently address the symptoms, without drugs, in a finite number of sessions. Most of these common psychological maladies have online questionnaires that could give you a better sense. Just, you know, don’t do them right before bed:-) Good luck and apologies if the suggestion was presumptuous.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#27

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

Agree; DO NOT make any changes to your sleep outside of medical advice. See a sleep doctor if you don't feel well rested when you wake up.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#28

Don't do this! Sleep tracking/optimisation and generally obsessing over sleep can trigger insomnia for a lot of people. I've had chronic insomnia for two years and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. If your sleep is good enough, leave it alone.

Interesting! I hadn't heard this perspective before. Sounds like Goodharting [0] applies to sleep too

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#29
With regard to sleep tracking apps, I have Idiopathic Hypersomnia, a rare sleep disorder that causes excessive daytime sleepiness, sleeping for long hours, sleep “drunkenness”, central sleep apnea, and resulting short term memory problems. I’ve used literally every sleep app I could get my hands on and they are all terrible. I’ve used the Fitbit and Apple Watch heart monitors, the cpap machine’s app (Philips), and medical grade, at home ones.

Most of the apps that supposedly track sleep cycles do so in very lackadaisical fashion. They measure small variations in heart rate to determine the sleep stage you’re on, but I’m the ultimate edge case and they all ways fall short. Even medical grade sleep monitors stuff ends up not working right because half the time it thinks I’ve gone into cardiac arrest because my heart rate falls so low (The random 3 hour block of time in the night being reported as “deceased” was a little jarring).

Sleep comes (perhaps too) easy to me, but my partner is not so lucky. She used to obsess over the sleep tracking stuff until the Apple Watch where it just measures time asleep, a way more measurable and meaningful metric. I mean, what are you going to do with the knowledge of being in deep sleep from 1:28am until 2:09am? Nothing. You cannot control it or will it to be better, practicing good sleep hygiene by going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time is way more important than knowing the stage of sleep you’re in at any given part of the night. The most rested I feel is when I have a consistent sleep routine, and contemporary medical advice supports this.

Ditch the sleep apps that track your sleep, it’s just another thing to worry a about.

Re: Get better sleep – Anecdata and sleep tech

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experimented with this a fair bit, but my experience so far is: when I ramp up activity I see improvement in sleep, but once it becomes normal it doesn't help much. I also occasionally run into really annoying situations where I'll do some pretty heavy lifting during the day, then go to sleep knowing how important it will be for me to get rest that night—which creates the kind of self-awareness trap described ab…

Anecdotally, I find even dedicated heavy lifting (1-1.5 hours) does not improve my sleep but similar durations of high-intensity cardio (45 minutes+) heavily improve my sleep even comparing for differing work-related stress baselines. I alternate lifts/HIIT,Tabata and do this regularly (2+ years of 5-6/week workouts) and still have reduced sleep latency times compared to before dedicated regular work-outs. My job is…

> ... but similar durations of high-intensity cardio (45 minutes+) heavily improve my sleep

I should definitely give this a try. I do long walks and strength training, but have been missing cardio. Thanks for the tip.

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